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Old 12-26-2016, 09:43 PM   #1
kimona
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Brake Fluid Change???

Took my car to the dealer for an oil change today (53K miles). Service writer told me I needed to change my brake fluid @ $99. I thought I would consult yarisworld before doing this. Is it really necessary now? Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:58 AM   #2
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Imo I would want new brake fluid in there due to a build-up of moisture causing premature corrosion of the brake components. If it's a dd then there isn't really any performance issues not changing it.

Although I would want to watch that they actually replace all of the old fluid with new and they don't just simply empty and refill the master cylinder reservoir. They should also flush the old fluid out of the lines and bleed the calipers.
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Old 12-27-2016, 02:27 AM   #3
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Since brake fluid soaks up water, and is lighter than water, the water collects in the bottom of the system. From my experience as a mechanic it's shown to be more cost effective to do flushes as your calipers/cylinders will last much longer. Especially if the car has expensive calipers (Yaris does not).

Note that this experience is in a low salt area. In salty/rust areas where calipers are damaged due to external factors, on a Yaris it may not be cost effective.

Typically I recommend brake flushes when we do brakes. That way we are consistent and not over-selling to our customers. The generally accepted interval is 2yrs for flushes.

Cheers.
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Old 12-27-2016, 03:25 AM   #4
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Brake fluid change is not over selling !
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Old 12-27-2016, 08:41 AM   #5
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Pretty easy to do your self.Try to get the old fluid out of the master cylinder, a turkey baster might work. Gravity bleed each brake, one at a time.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:27 AM   #6
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You should be changing your brake fluid every 2 to 3 years.. I do mine every 2... very easy process... And only cost me about $15.00 in fluid...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimona View Post
Took my car to the dealer for an oil change today (53K miles). Service writer told me I needed to change my brake fluid @ $99. I thought I would consult yarisworld before doing this. Is it really necessary now? Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:04 AM   #7
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I just bought a brake fluid tester to settle an argument on a motorcycle forum: Does an opened bottle of brake fluid that is resealed and half full absorb moisture?

Answer: No!

I used the tester on my wife's 12 year old Camry that's never had the fluid changed or bled and the result was >1% moisture which according to the instructions doesn't require changing. Couldn't use it on the Yaris as there no space above the master cylinder. Adding fluid on a Yaris would be a PITA.

The owners manual doesn't call for changing the brake fluid on either the Yaris or Camry. Or even bleeding them. I can't imagine Toyota would put themselves behind a legal 8 ball.

Although when I was able the brake fluid got changed at least every few years.

IMO in the majority of cases it just makes money for the dealer.
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Old 12-27-2016, 10:48 AM   #8
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Toyota mainteinance program reguires brake fluid change every 30K km's !
Just called my local Toyota service !
After 12y your tester shows 1% water on fluid .... yep .. looks to be one more MUST have tester
When brake fluid is old soaked and dirty enough it also ruins piston sealsfrom calipers and mastercylinders !
KTM brakes tilt with less than 6y old fluid !
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimmoKekki View Post
Toyota mainteinance program reguires brake fluid change every 30K km's !
Just called my local Toyota service !
After 12y your tester shows 1% water on fluid .... yep .. looks to be one more MUST have tester
When brake fluid is old soaked and dirty enough it also ruins piston sealsfrom calipers and mastercylinders !
KTM brakes tilt with less than 6y old fluid !
But the owners manual doesn't call for It. You forgot to say "in their opinion" Toyota service advises it.

Tester shows LES THAN 1%. I also calibrated the tester by mixing 200 ml fresh fluid with 5 ml water. Tester read 2%.

Finally you can change your own brake fluid for $5.

Dealer gets $99.

Clearly they have incentive to talk you into it.
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Old 12-27-2016, 11:49 AM   #10
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Fwiw the plastic cowling that covers the brake fluid reservoir can easily be popped out and removed (just the section above the reservoir) this is by design the make it easy to access.
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Old 12-27-2016, 12:06 PM   #11
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That cowling piece on my 2007 has two tabs that seem to say it would pop off independently of the reported other two pieces of the whole cowl assembly. But that piece seems welded tightly to the piece behind it. Which way does it pry off? Anything else to release but the 2 obvious tabs? Anything else to remove first besides the long rubber molding that removes easily?
Sure would like to get this whole cowl figured out. Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2016, 02:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
Fwiw the plastic cowling that covers the brake fluid reservoir can easily be popped out and removed (just the section above the reservoir) this is by design the make it easy to access.
Have to try it!
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Old 12-27-2016, 05:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogsridewith View Post
That cowling piece on my 2007 has two tabs that seem to say it would pop off independently of the reported other two pieces of the whole cowl assembly. But that piece seems welded tightly to the piece behind it. Which way does it pry off? Anything else to release but the 2 obvious tabs? Anything else to remove first besides the long rubber molding that removes easily?
Sure would like to get this whole cowl figured out. Thanks.
I just popped those 2 tabs and lifted the small piece of plastic cowling that covers the brake resevoir. You just have to unhook the rubber moulding from the piece
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Old 12-27-2016, 07:21 PM   #14
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Brake fluid absorb moisture over time. That is a fact. Water boils at 212f brake fluid at about 450 degrees Fahrenheit. Meaning if your brake fluid is contaminated with water it will affect the point at which it boils. Wet brake fluid( brake fluid containing moisture above 1%) boils at approximately 311 degrees. Water is much more corrosive than brake fluid meaning it will Rust or corrode the internal components of the braking system at a much faster rate than brake fluid alone. Brake fluid that is open to the atmosphere will fairly quickly absorb moisture. Of course there is a lot of factors that affect this. How long it is open to atmosphere. Ambient temperature dew point ect. Bla, bla, bla. If you live in Seattle like I do it becomes contaminated in the vehicle anywhere from 3 to 6 years. If you live in Arizona probably closer to 6+ years. Those are simply estimates based upon my experience. I work for one of the largest Distributors of brake parts in the Northwestern United states. It is a family business and I am the 3 generation in the business. I am also an ASE Master Automotive technician for 24 years. I do know a thing or two about brakes. With that being said I recommend replacing the fluid whenever the brakes are done. It's just a logical time to do it it's approximately the correct interval. Of course that varies with mileage driven and all that good stuff. Why I pay to have a brake flush done independent of a brake service. It just doesn't make Financial sense. It should be done at the time the brakes are serviced in a proper brake service. Brakes work as an entire system together. Outside of a normal service and replacement of brake pads shoes it's just an unneeded expense. I hear what everyone is saying about the corrosion inside of the system and possibly affecting calipers and are wheel cylinders. I have personally done thousands of brake services on thousands of vehicles. Of 1000 Vehicles serviced about 3 have ever had a caliper Frozen from corrosion internally. I know calipers are replaced quite often and that's okay with me since it makes my family money. Go right ahead and replace those calipers but I rarely ever see them go bad from internal corrosion. 99% of the time it's from a slider that is external that is frozen or damaged not internal damage. If you're worried about the expense of replacing calipers due to internal corrosion you're worried about something that is highly unlikely ever to affect your vehicle. The brake fluid flush independent of a brake service is just a waste of money in my opinion. Wait and tell your servicing your brakes and do it then it should be less labor since you're already in there. That's just my two cents.

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Old 12-27-2016, 08:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motzking1 View Post
Brake fluid absorb moisture over time. That is a fact. Water boils at 212f brake fluid at about 450 degrees Fahrenheit. Meaning if your brake fluid is contaminated with water it will affect the point at which it boils. Wet brake fluid( brake fluid containing moisture above 1%) boils at approximately 311 degrees. Water is much more corrosive than brake fluid meaning it will Rust or corrode the internal components of the braking system at a much faster rate than brake fluid alone. Brake fluid that is open to the atmosphere will fairly quickly absorb moisture. Of course there is a lot of factors that affect this. How long it is open to atmosphere. Ambient temperature dew point ect. Bla, bla, bla. If you live in Seattle like I do it becomes contaminated in the vehicle anywhere from 3 to 6 years. If you live in Arizona probably closer to 6+ years. Those are simply estimates based upon my experience. I work for one of the largest Distributors of brake parts in the Northwestern United states. It is a family business and I am the 3 generation in the business. I am also an ASE Master Automotive technician for 24 years. I do know a thing or two about brakes. With that being said I recommend replacing the fluid whenever the brakes are done. It's just a logical time to do it it's approximately the correct interval. Of course that varies with mileage driven and all that good stuff. Why I pay to have a brake flush done independent of a brake service. It just doesn't make Financial sense. It should be done at the time the brakes are serviced in a proper brake service. Brakes work as an entire system together. Outside of a normal service and replacement of brake pads shoes it's just an unneeded expense. I hear what everyone is saying about the corrosion inside of the system and possibly affecting calipers and are wheel cylinders. I have personally done thousands of brake services on thousands of vehicles. Of 1000 Vehicles serviced about 3 have ever had a caliper Frozen from corrosion internally. I know calipers are replaced quite often and that's okay with me since it makes my family money. Go right ahead and replace those calipers but I rarely ever see them go bad from internal corrosion. 99% of the time it's from a slider that is external that is frozen or damaged not internal damage. If you're worried about the expense of replacing calipers due to internal corrosion you're worried about something that is highly unlikely ever to affect your vehicle. The brake fluid flush independent of a brake service is just a waste of money in my opinion. Wait and tell your servicing your brakes and do it then it should be less labor since you're already in there. That's just my two cents.

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Yeah, my shop rarely replaces calipers since we check pins and pistons prior to quoting. Pins or swollen pads are definitely the common problems, and lots of other shops call for caliper replacement just because the pins need some lube. I do still find some stiff caliper pistons, but very low percentage (and usually those stupid e-brake in caliper design or fixed calipers where one piston is stiffer than the others.).

I always figured flushing when relined was best since you are disturbing the sediment in the calipers when pushing the pistons back. No better chance to get it out than when it is loose. It's also just easier as a shop to keep track of when you have flushed customer cars. I've yet to boil brake fluid with street pads. I've found even with unflushed fluid the street pads will fade/melt before the fluid boils but it's probably pretty close. Performance pads are a different story though.

Had a newer AMG G-wagon in a few weeks ago and it needed 4 calipers due to stiff pistons. I think they were $3200 and had to come from Germany.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:08 PM   #16
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bleeding brakes fluid MityVac

Last two posts sound great. There are several ways to move brake fluid through the system. I do it w/o assistant using a MityVac (suction device, w/ gauge, also used for testing various vacuum diaphragms). Ever encounter or hear trusted account of the Mity Vac pulling in air around wheel cylinder or master cylinder seals...thereby, of course, ruining the bleed job.
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Old 12-27-2016, 09:25 PM   #17
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I imagine it is possible. I have used a Vacuula brand bleeder and if turned up they can produce almost as much vacuum as a vacuum pump. 28+ in. Of mercury. I have not had a problem before but do not normally use it. I still use the old fashion two person down and hold method. I am careful not to travel the pedal much outside it's normal travel ammount. It seems by bleeding the pedal and therefore the master cylinder too far down Beyond its normal range of travel tends to increase the instance of master cylinder failure. My guess is because you're traveling outside of where the normal wear Groove kind of happens inside the cylinder therefore increasing the chance of damaging the Rubber seal. All so funny what you say about the Mercedes as we have sold a massive amount of calipers on some of the late model Mercedes. You know there's a problem when you go to the shop to pick up Part you would normally stock 2 or 3 sets of and there are 60 sets. It's a real High moving part. I honestly have not dove in to what the failures are with the late model MB calipers. In the past the big failures in big numbers where when some manufactures went to phenolic Pistons instead of metal ones. They cracked they chipped they got soaked with fluid and expanded. Most of those issues have worked themselves out. Most manufactures abandoned the phenolic piston design. But there have been others that have tried to make Ceramics and other Exotics pistons for calipers. Each one has their own little quirk

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Old 12-27-2016, 09:27 PM   #18
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Toyota tends to use time tested parts and methods instead of going for the newest latest and greatest. That makes them reliable and easier to service

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