Shop won't align car because one front caster and both rear toe-in are out of spec? - Toyota Yaris Forums

Strife · 11-24-2012, 07:55 PM

So, I just replaced all the original tires that came with my 5-year old Yaris Hatchback (31,000+ miles) but the shop was unable to do the alignment because the right front caster and both rear toe-in measurements were out of spec (see attached image, values are expressed in degrees and millimeters). They recommended me going to some kind of suspension specialist shop, have those values shifted back to spec and get back to them to complete the alignment job. Baffled by their proposal I went home, did some forum searching and learned those values are not even intended to be adjustable, so my question is, what kind of modification is done to correct this? Is that even necessary? Should I rather take it to a Toyota service center and ask for a second opinion? Thanks in advance.

JumpmanYaris · 11-24-2012, 08:38 PM

take it to the dealer and ask em to do it. I wouldn't mention anything to them to see if they tell you the same.

Doesn't make sense if you are taking the car there is for them to correct it. :

:

auxmike · 11-24-2012, 09:29 PM

Wow, that's really off. Wondering if that car was in a wreck. Are you in Peru?

CoryM · 11-26-2012, 01:42 AM

Ok, so the only thing that needs to be adjusted on the front is the Toe (which is easy). The Caster is out of spec, but it will not cause tire wear. At worst it will cause a lead, which I doubt you will notice. It can also be adjusted a small amount by loosening off the rear control arm bolt and prying the control arm while tightening the bolt. In this case you want the RF balljoint to move forward on the vehicle so pry outwards.

The rear is out, but the only measurement that really matters there is the Total Toe. In this case you are actually in spec so will not wear tires. The problem is that both rear tires are pointing to the right a bit. While driving down the road the rear tires want to drive straight, and will cause the rear of the vehicle to rotate to the right. The rear tires will be slightly to the right of the front tires, not following directly behind. Because the tires are travelling straight (even though the body is not), you will not wear them rapidly.

Two things can cause this:
-Worn/torn axle beam bushings
-Bent components. In this case most likely the axle beam itself, or it's brackets.

Solutions are:
-replace bushings if torn (because the RR camber is tweaked, I think this unlikely)
-replace axle beam (I can't be sure that this is bent, but I think it very likely)
-have a frame shop measure what is actually bent and repair/replace it. It could also be a bent body if the car has been crashed hard.
-have a shop set the front toe and continue to drive the vehicle as is. Steering wheel might be slightly off-center but you should not see abnormal tire wear.

Hope this helps.
Cory

Strife · 11-27-2012, 08:52 PM

Thanks guys, since the old rear tires didn't show any abnormal wear, I'll probably leave that axle beam alone as long as the total toe is in check. Both front tires did exhibit excessive outside edge wear, though. But then again, I barely rotated those tires during their lifetime so I guess that accounts for something.

CoryM · 11-27-2012, 09:51 PM

You will still want your front toe adjusted. If they say you should do the rear say thanks, but just adjust the front toe. As I mentioned the steering wheel might be a little off center, but you can't complain about it because it will be from the rear, not their adjustment.
And yeah, rotating tires every 12000km will vastly increase your tire life.
Cheers.
Cory

Vang · 12-02-2012, 04:34 PM

my rear is also out of spec after running over something at 3am going 75mph down the highway...i just had the front aligned as best as possible and just moved on with my life since you can't adjust the rear. never noticed any abnormal wear over 40k miles and drives straight down the road. your making mountain out of mole hills lol..i'm sure some would disagree but whatever.

ljming99 · 12-05-2012, 01:09 AM

The front lower arm is most likely damaged as well since the caster is out, i did a replacement on my previous fwd car and an alignment check...it did fix the caster angle.

Front toe angle is the easiest fix for any shop that does alignment for a living, pretty much adjusting 1 nut.

Since you mentioned that you hit something on the road, I also suggest to do other checks on the suspension as well, like the anti roll linkages too.

11-24-2012, 09:29 PM	#3
auxmike Drives: 2008 HB, A/T, Power W/L/M Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: LI, New Yawk Posts: 2,063	Wow, that's really off. Wondering if that car was in a wreck. Are you in Peru? __________________ Never take eyes off opponent - Bruce Lee

11-26-2012, 01:42 AM	#4
CoryM Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: White Rock BC Posts: 687	Ok, so the only thing that needs to be adjusted on the front is the Toe (which is easy). The Caster is out of spec, but it will not cause tire wear. At worst it will cause a lead, which I doubt you will notice. It can also be adjusted a small amount by loosening off the rear control arm bolt and prying the control arm while tightening the bolt. In this case you want the RF balljoint to move forward on the vehicle so pry outwards. The rear is out, but the only measurement that really matters there is the Total Toe. In this case you are actually in spec so will not wear tires. The problem is that both rear tires are pointing to the right a bit. While driving down the road the rear tires want to drive straight, and will cause the rear of the vehicle to rotate to the right. The rear tires will be slightly to the right of the front tires, not following directly behind. Because the tires are travelling straight (even though the body is not), you will not wear them rapidly. Two things can cause this: -Worn/torn axle beam bushings -Bent components. In this case most likely the axle beam itself, or it's brackets. Solutions are: -replace bushings if torn (because the RR camber is tweaked, I think this unlikely) -replace axle beam (I can't be sure that this is bent, but I think it very likely) -have a frame shop measure what is actually bent and repair/replace it. It could also be a bent body if the car has been crashed hard. -have a shop set the front toe and continue to drive the vehicle as is. Steering wheel might be slightly off-center but you should not see abnormal tire wear. Hope this helps. Cory

11-27-2012, 08:52 PM	#5
Strife Drives: 2008 Yaris Hatchback Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: South America Posts: 2	Thanks guys, since the old rear tires didn't show any abnormal wear, I'll probably leave that axle beam alone as long as the total toe is in check. Both front tires did exhibit excessive outside edge wear, though. But then again, I barely rotated those tires during their lifetime so I guess that accounts for something.

11-27-2012, 09:51 PM	#6
CoryM Drives: 2009 5-door, 5-speed Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: White Rock BC Posts: 687	You will still want your front toe adjusted. If they say you should do the rear say thanks, but just adjust the front toe. As I mentioned the steering wheel might be a little off center, but you can't complain about it because it will be from the rear, not their adjustment. And yeah, rotating tires every 12000km will vastly increase your tire life. Cheers. Cory

12-02-2012, 04:34 PM	#7
Vang Drives: 2008 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: CA Posts: 158	my rear is also out of spec after running over something at 3am going 75mph down the highway...i just had the front aligned as best as possible and just moved on with my life since you can't adjust the rear. never noticed any abnormal wear over 40k miles and drives straight down the road. your making mountain out of mole hills lol..i'm sure some would disagree but whatever.

12-05-2012, 01:09 AM	#8
ljming99 Drives: Yaris '06 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Singapore Posts: 73	The front lower arm is most likely damaged as well since the caster is out, i did a replacement on my previous fwd car and an alignment check...it did fix the caster angle. Front toe angle is the easiest fix for any shop that does alignment for a living, pretty much adjusting 1 nut. Since you mentioned that you hit something on the road, I also suggest to do other checks on the suspension as well, like the anti roll linkages too.