Spring Stiffeners

[Lazerdot]

I have TRD springs and shocks and have heard that I can stiffen the rear end with rubber inserts into the coil off the rear springs. If true were might I find these gadgets? Garm, any ideas? I could use a bit less push at the autocrosses.

[Tamago]

i don't sugggest them ..

[schleppy]

I wouldn't use them either. Springs were not designed to work with bits of rubber stuck between coils.

[Loren]

I've used them. Had them on my wife's Saturn, all four corners, for at least 6 years. No problems. (same car also had half a coil cut off of each spring...)

Like anything else, you need to understand what you're doing. Adding a rubber spacer between the coils of a spring effectively removes that spring from the picture when the rubber is compressed. If you look up the formula to calculate spring rate, number of coils is a major factor, so removing a coil will raise the spring rate.

The rubber blocks also will raise ride height, so be aware of that.

The cool thing about them is that they're super-easy to install and remove. If they have the desired effect, great! If not, yank 'em back out.

You can get coil spring spacers from JC Whitney, among other places.

[cali yaris]

^ there you go -- JC Whitney. I used to shop in their catalog for my first car, a 1962 Karmann Ghia (sigh).

[kngrsll]

This is an article on spring rubbers:
http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=31

And these are some for sale:

http://www.google.com/products?q=lon...num=1&ct=title

[cleong]

You could also increase air pressures in your rear tires so that they don't grip as well as the fronts (or lower the fronts).

[kngrsll]

Originally Posted by cleong

You could also increase air pressures in your rear tires so that they don't grip as well as the fronts (or lower the fronts).

great great point

[schleppy]

+10 on tire pressures. I'd play with those before I started putting rubber bits in the spring coils.

[Loren]

Guys, don't let your prejudice of the unknown cloud your vision. There's nothing wrong with using spring spacers, they're just another way to change spring rate. Most aftermarket spring kits are designed to understeer, just like the stock suspension is designed to understeer. Understeer is safer for the average idiot, it's predictable.

Putting spring spacers in the rear will allow you to put a little more spring rate back there, which is a good thing. Raising the tire pressure will have a similar end effect, but not exactly the same.

Raising the rear tire pressure raises the effective spring rate of the tire, but the suspension is so soft that it doesn't make much difference. Mostly what you're doing (if you add enough pressure to do it) is crowning the rear tire treads and causing them to lose grip. This will allow you to oversteer, but it does NOT improve the front grip. Raising the rear spring rate (just like adding a rear swaybar) transfers weight to the front and allows the front tires to grip more while also making the car more prone to oversteer.

So, while tire pressures can be helpful to play with, they're not going to do as much as spring rates will.

[anonymous user]

Wow, like Loren stated, i also see no problems adding rubber inserts to springs. Every aftermarket set i have ever used on my cars (besides the yaris) have had them already installed. I guess on heavier cars they are more needed on the lower coils?

[fuji]

They aound like a good way to further tune your spring rates and in some cases weird guys like myself who enjoy close to stock ride heights!

[Lazerdot]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

I'm on Kumo MX Tires now and the fronts tend to "roll over" when I run them at less then 40PSI. I was told it looked as if the rims were almost on the ground. So, I have done the tire pressure thing in the back, but 50psi is max recommended.

The wiggle room is getting narrow. Driver skill is even narrower, so the spring stiffiners seemed like a neat idea as they may be cheap, removable and great as a temporary fix.

My TRD sway bar is 19mm, the other brand is 24mm?, I think. Till I get that this might be the best fix.

I know another tire/wheel combo will help as well. But, guns and ammo first, so far they aren't trying to ban AutoCross...

[Loren]

I'd put the fronts up to 45 or more if they need it to keep from rolling over. Don't forget about alignment. Sounds like you could use some more negative camber in the front.

[Lazerdot]

Camber may be a help. Garm has some camber "screws" ? available but I don't know how they work. The car has been aligned but very short on negative camber. I used 45psi and around 50in the back. Not bad, but still pushes. I was a bit fast on turn entry which would create the need to loosen the rear a bit. Maybe I should slow down a bit too...?

Thanks for the info and suggestions.

[Loren]

Yes, "slow in, fast out" is the quickest way through any turn. Overcook the entry and you'll understeer and lose even more speed in addition to losing your line.

Camber bolts are an option, or just take a die grinder to the lower strut bolt holes.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

^ there you go -- JC Whitney. I used to shop in their catalog for my first car, a 1962 Karmann Ghia (sigh).

I hear that "sigh". My first car in the States was a 72 Ghia. Lotsa JC Shitney parts in it.

[yarstar]

I gotta set of spring rubbers I ran on my TRD springs for a year to keep the 17"s from rubbing. I'm on 15's w/ coilovers now. If you want my spring rubbers, PM me and I'll send you a pic. I think I paid $50 for the pair so $25 shipped is cool. They really stiffened the ride too.