US Yaris to be imported from France ?

[why?]

Originally Posted by Billiam

That's because, like a lot of people, you are preprogrammed to believe that. I'll say the same thing I always say with this argument.....prove it. And I don't mean that your uncle's brother's cousin's mechanic said it....I mean real-world hard evidence.

I did. Read what I wrote again. In every case, manufacturing plants in the auto manufacturers home country were superior to manufacturing plants in the US. It is even true of US car makers. GM, Ford, and Chrysler plants in foreign countries put out better cars than the plants in the US.

And this isn't even about the plague of humanity called unions, it is about how other specific countries go about what they do for a living. In both germany and japan people care more about the quality of their work than they do in this country, especially when it comes to car production.

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by why?

I did. Read what I wrote again. In every case, manufacturing plants in the auto manufacturers home country were superior to manufacturing plants in the US. It is even true of US car makers. GM, Ford, and Chrysler plants in foreign countries put out better cars than the plants in the US.

And this isn't even about the plague of humanity called unions, it is about how other specific countries go about what they do for a living. In both germany and japan people care more about the quality of their work than they do in this country, especially when it comes to car production.

Unions get the blame for a lot of bad things...some deserved...some not. The downfall of the Big 3 had much more to do with poor planning, poor designs, poor engineering and poor management in general than it did with the assembly line worker.

As for your assertion that the "American" worker doesn't care as much for what they do as their Germans and Japanese counterparts is both incorrect and, quite frankly, offensive...and clearly based on some sort of predisposed idea.

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by Billiam

This was not a assembly line related issue. Completely out of the hands of the people putting the vehicle together.

That isn't the point. The point is that an investigation was made and certain realizations about the quality of vehicles assembled in NA for Toyota was not on par with Japan.

[fnkngrv]

Originally Posted by Billiam

As for your assertion that the "American" worker doesn't care as much for what they do as their Germans and Japanese counterparts is both incorrect and, quite frankly, offensive...and clearly based on some sort of predisposed idea.

I am proud to be an American and what we as a nation have the ability to do. If I didn't feel that way I would not have served our military. That being said this country has fled from its roots of hard work and ethics that our grandparents and parents attempted to instill in our generation (those born in mid 60s to 90s). Today's Americans are the people of entitlement. Today's youth is a primary example. The bulk of them believe they have the RIGHT, not privilege to for example a brand new car when they turn 16, 17, or 18 without having to work a lick for it. The same goes for their college funds. This is reflected constantly in every day life as well as the media. This driving force is what is also reflected in society's job force here in the US. There is more than just cheaper labor as a reason to hire illegals or outsource there is also the plain fact that other cultures still have the hard work ethic instilled in their societies. It is sad to say that today hard work and integrity is an exception not the rule outside of strictly controlled environments. This is a primary reason why many employers that I have worked with as clients have video surveillance in their places of work. It is not just to prevent theft, etc. It is also to observe and weed out the lazy folks that have blanketed the workforce and caused the downturn in quality and output. The whole mentality of "I don't get paid enough to do that" is rampant and needs to be cut off at the knees. Like I said, this could turn political and ethical pretty quick. The bottom line is that IF Toyota France DOES export their stock to US shores only time will tell if they meet the same standards as found in Japan for example.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Billiam

Unions get the blame for a lot of bad things...some deserved...some not. The downfall of the Big 3 had much more to do with poor planning, poor designs, poor engineering and poor management in general than it did with the assembly line worker.

As for your assertion that the "American" worker doesn't care as much for what they do as their Germans and Japanese counterparts is both incorrect and, quite frankly, offensive...and clearly based on some sort of predisposed idea.

yawn. Let's revisit history. BMW opened a brand new plant in South Carolina. All of a sudden BMW's had quality issues. People looking for BWM's made sure they only bought cars that were straight from germany. The sources of the quality issues lead directly to the SC plant.

VW has several plants in the US. They also have make some vehicles for the US in Germany. People search out cars made from Germany and avoid the ones from the US. Just go check out any vw forums and you will see people recommending this.

Most Japanese and Korean car makers now have plants in the USA and their home countries. In every single case people seek out vehicles made in the foreign countries and avoid ones made in the US.

I could go on, but I don't see the point. People aren't dumb, they are going to make decisions that make the best sense for themselves. In the case of automobiles avoiding american made ones is just better sense.

Let's not talk about the big 3. The only one that should still even exist is Ford. Both GM and Chrysler should have died a long time ago. The country would be much better off with whatever is going to take their place when both companies do officially die. To string it out hurts everyone, especially Americans who truly have good ideas and the ability to make great things happen.

Pretend to be offended all you want. I really couldn't care less. If Americans actually gave a damn about anything any more they would have the decency to all pay attention and educate themselves on the one thing that we can all do, vote. Yet at most 1/3 of the country votes. And judging from our last presidential election even those that voted didn't pay too much attention. That says everything.

If you let it the truth will set you free.

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by why?

....Pretend to be offended all you want....

I'm not pretending. I happen to be one of those American workers that you claim does not care. People like you do nothing but perpetuate the negative stereotypes of the American worker....based on outdated and/or inaccurate information.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Billiam

I'm not pretending. I happen to be one of those American workers that you claim does not care. People like you do nothing but perpetuate the negative stereotypes of the American worker....based on outdated and/or inaccurate information.

right. What year did chevrolet's start exploding?h yea, that's right. 2011

And you are using the term American worker as if you are only talking about unions. Leave it to a union worker to think only unions matter...When in reality union membership is dropping like a rock. Because intelligent people can separate human beings from evil disgusting union leaders that only want money and power.

Unless you live in a bubble completely separated from all humanity it doesn't take much to see people in the US seem to just not give a damn. Whether you are looking at dealership mechanics damaging vehicles, quick oil change places forgetting to fill cars with oil, horrific customer service at many retail stores, etc. A good experience when shopping for anything now a days is becoming a rarity instead of a guarantee. You can't even be sure people will be polite anymore. Hearing someone say the words," your welcome," instead of, "yup,"sure," etc, is almost unheard of. Common courtesy is almost totally dead. It certainly extends to the workplace as well. People who are happy to be thought of as evil jerks instead of hard workers, or excitedly bragging about how they love being known as an "asshole" or a "total bitch" like that is somehow an honorable thing.

Our society is totally screwed up and is going in the wrong direction in every possible way.

[DebbyM46227]

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

[Volcano]

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

Excuse me ???

[why?]

Originally Posted by Volcano

Excuse me ???

he's mistaking europeans with french people. We know Germans are hard working people, we'd just wish you would stop bailing out all of europe and let the eurozone fail like it should. Then when everyone else is dirt poor, Germany can take over by simply buying everything.

[DebbyM46227]

Originally Posted by why?

he's mistaking europeans with french people. We know Germans are hard working people, we'd just wish you would stop bailing out all of europe and let the eurozone fail like it should. Then when everyone else is dirt poor, Germany can take over by simply buying everything.

Actually I'm not a HE. Sorry, I didn't mean to lump the German people in with the others. I had a German-made car a long time ago and it was a good car. Basically, I'm talking about the French, and maybe the people from Greece and some of the other countries too. But not the Germans.

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by why?

right. What year did chevrolet's start exploding?h yea, that's right. 2011

And you are using the term American worker as if you are only talking about unions. Leave it to a union worker to think only unions matter...When in reality union membership is dropping like a rock. Because intelligent people can separate human beings from evil disgusting union leaders that only want money and power.

Unless you live in a bubble completely separated from all humanity it doesn't take much to see people in the US seem to just not give a damn. Whether you are looking at dealership mechanics damaging vehicles, quick oil change places forgetting to fill cars with oil, horrific customer service at many retail stores, etc. A good experience when shopping for anything now a days is becoming a rarity instead of a guarantee. You can't even be sure people will be polite anymore. Hearing someone say the words," your welcome," instead of, "yup,"sure," etc, is almost unheard of. Common courtesy is almost totally dead. It certainly extends to the workplace as well. People who are happy to be thought of as evil jerks instead of hard workers, or excitedly bragging about how they love being known as an "asshole" or a "total bitch" like that is somehow an honorable thing.

Our society is totally screwed up and is going in the wrong direction in every possible way.

So, some engineer on the Volt project didn't do all of his/her homework or some bean-counter decided that they could save 0.001 cents per car by making a wire a smaller gauge or the walls of the batteries thinner...who knows? But I guess to you it's all the hard working, blue collar guy's fault who assemble the pieces.

As for the union? You brought that up. I made a quick reference to it only after you made a comment about it. I never said or claimed to be a UAW supporter. It is, however, quite easy to place the blame on all that has been...is...and may be wrong in the future with the Big 3 on the UAW when you don't understand all of the facts.

With each one of your posts it becomes clearer that you have no concept of what it means to be a "blue collar" worker. It's one thing to be a realist...or even a bit negative. But you cross that line and come off as a cynic. And if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 44 years in this world, it's the more cynical a person is the more people should take, with a grain of salt, what they say and think.

I am a proud, honest, hard-working, union-free, blue-collar, American worker who gives 100% in everything I do and have been with the same company for nearly 20 years. You can lump us into one not so flattering category all you want, but there are more of us out there than you realize. We are the middle class...the ones that fund the poor and protect the rich...we are glue that holds this nation together. Walk into my work place and tell these guys that they don't care about what they do and you'll probably find yourself missing some front teeth.

[edmscan]

The interesting thing about this thread is this .... people are slamming the French workers as being sub-standard, but people seem to have no problems flying in French built planes .. ie the A320, A380 etc.

So for myself anyways .. I would drive a French built Yaris, but I am happy that my present Yaris (Canadian model - Japanese Built) should give me many years of service before I have to decide on buying another one.

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

quote of the day :D

[BluYrs]

In about five posts the thread got out of hand. Nice.

Originally Posted by CTScott

I would say that's a good theory, as it would let the 1NZ-FE go into retirement.

Not necessarily. The 1NZ-FE is a close sibling to the 1NZ-FXE used in the Yaris Hybrid, which is also manufactured in France. It would seem more logical that the 1NZ-FE be developed further.

[mrpj]

Originally Posted by Billiam

The interior components have never been the strong point of any Yaris regardless of it's production location or final destination. That tends to be the product of it's "entry level" status and price point....and the '12 N. American version is no exception. That said...whatever quality/tolerance targets Toyota has set for the N.A. Yaris will be dublicated for the French produced N.A. bound version....rest assured.

In the U.K. - remember we call it "treasure island" or "rip off Britain"- the Yaris is not a "cheap" car. It's nearly always the case that we pay in Pounds Sterling the same as you pay in $U.S. So for the premium prices we pay it can't be too much to ask for good quality components.
I still have the opinion - hopefully that's allowed? - a French built Yaris will not be as good as those built elsewhere.
I was in a local Toyota dealership a few months ago, looking at the Verso S (a grown up Yaris!), built in Japan. I compared it to a MkIII Yaris in the same showroom. It was far superior in both component fit and quality. I commented about this to the saleswoman and she agreed (off the record) that the Japanese built cars are far superior to those built elsewhere.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Billiam

So, some engineer on the Volt project didn't do all of his/her homework or some bean-counter decided that they could save 0.001 cents per car by making a wire a smaller gauge or the walls of the batteries thinner...who knows? But I guess to you it's all the hard working, blue collar guy's fault who assemble the pieces.

As for the union? You brought that up. I made a quick reference to it only after you made a comment about it. I never said or claimed to be a UAW supporter. It is, however, quite easy to place the blame on all that has been...is...and may be wrong in the future with the Big 3 on the UAW when you don't understand all of the facts.

With each one of your posts it becomes clearer that you have no concept of what it means to be a "blue collar" worker. It's one thing to be a realist...or even a bit negative. But you cross that line and come off as a cynic. And if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 44 years in this world, it's the more cynical a person is the more people should take, with a grain of salt, what they say and think.

I am a proud, honest, hard-working, union-free, blue-collar, American worker who gives 100% in everything I do and have been with the same company for nearly 20 years. You can lump us into one not so flattering category all you want, but there are more of us out there than you realize. We are the middle class...the ones that fund the poor and protect the rich...we are glue that holds this nation together. Walk into my work place and tell these guys that they don't care about what they do and you'll probably find yourself missing some front teeth.

And you say you are not trying to be insulted. Of course you are. You are bending over backwards doing everything possible to pretend I am insulting you personally.

You are also doing everything to separate people into foolish categories. That is just dumb. People are not categories, they are individuals. Looking at people as anything but individuals is discrediting everything that makes them humans. This is the USA, there are zero classes. Everyone has the opportunity to succeed as much as they want to. That is how a high school drop out can be the richest person on the planet. That is why the majority of people earning multiple millions of dollars a year came from families that couldn't dream of having that much money. If you really want a class based society, please check out India, where you are still born into your specific class, and there is still almost nothing you can do to change your entire life. That is a class based society, as much as the government is trying to get everyone in the country to stop living by it. Not the USA.

You might not be in the union specifically, but it is obvious you have adopted that us vs them attitude that union loyalists everywhere love. It is the same type of attitude that leads people to decide to attack the companies they work for and the people they work with for no real reason. It is that attitude that leads to intelligent people needing to call another department and wait a week to move a chair and a desk five feet across a room.

If by blue collar you are talking about people who choose to never see individuals, but to only see categories, than you are damn right I won't ever get that. Or if you mean people that pretend that where you are born means anything to where you will end up, I know that is flat out false.

People are people, we are all individuals. Accept everyone as their own person, not as some blank category in some supposed group.

[brianeno]

Very oddball move IMO. What do you think about this? I couldn't copy and paste the article, but here check out the exact details.. Would love to hear opinions on this :)

http://www.web2carz.com/autos/news/1...tion-to-france