US Yaris to be imported from France ?

[Yaristeve]

Misleading thread title; I had thought all US-bound Yaris' were made in Japan and so the title had me do a double take. Actually, Toyota is moving production of US-bound Yaris' from Japan to France. I wonder if they are going to have a dual-manufacturing plan like Honda did with the Accord and Toyota did with the Camry (for a while); East coast customers get France-built Yaris while west coast customers get Japan built Yaris'. Anyway, it's moot to me; I already have mine (2011) and I am never giving it up...

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by why?

...You might not be in the union specifically, but it is obvious you have adopted that us vs them attitude that union loyalists everywhere love. It is the same type of attitude that leads people to decide to attack the companies they work for and the people they work with for no real reason...

Your entire post could not be further from the point I was trying to make. However, the above quote in particular stands out. I most certainly DO NOT have a "us vs. them" attitude. I am quite loyal to the company I have spent the last 20 years working for....and the company that has done an admiral job of taking care of me.

You are the one lumping people into categories by implying that the American worker, in general, is no good. You clearly are a cynical, bitter "individual" who has an awful lot to learn about life.

[Sparcoboy]

IMHO you're all just being stereothypical and racist, like saying all americans are fat people who have no interest in the cars they put together. I drive a french Yaris (like all diesel Yaris) and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I read hear is "I heard this" an "I heard that"
Some people just don't base their judgements on facts.

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

I'd rather have a Japanese-made Yaris. Most Europeans don't have a good work ethic. They want 20 hour work weeks and time off in the middle of the day to drink wine.

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

Actually I'm not a HE. Sorry, I didn't mean to lump the German people in with the others. I had a German-made car a long time ago and it was a good car. Basically, I'm talking about the French, and maybe the people from Greece and some of the other countries too. But not the Germans.

I didn't know it was stereotype reinforcement day today...

[LA Yaris]

What's the point on buying Toyota if it's not made in Japan.. That is the only main reason why a lot of us buy toyota's.

[CTScott]

Originally Posted by LA Yaris

What's the point on buying Toyota if it's not made in Japan.. That is the only main reason why a lot of us buy toyota's.

There aren't too many US Toyota models that are still made in Japan. My Tacoma for instance was made in Mexico. I knew that when I bought it and still did so, based on the fact that I was buying a Toyota engineered vehicle.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Billiam

So, some engineer on the Volt project didn't do all of his/her homework or some bean-counter decided that they could save 0.001 cents per car by making a wire a smaller gauge or the walls of the batteries thinner...who knows? But I guess to you it's all the hard working, blue collar guy's fault who assemble the pieces.

As for the union? You brought that up. I made a quick reference to it only after you made a comment about it. I never said or claimed to be a UAW supporter. It is, however, quite easy to place the blame on all that has been...is...and may be wrong in the future with the Big 3 on the UAW when you don't understand all of the facts.

With each one of your posts it becomes clearer that you have no concept of what it means to be a "blue collar" worker. It's one thing to be a realist...or even a bit negative. But you cross that line and come off as a cynic. And if there's one thing I've learned in my nearly 44 years in this world, it's the more cynical a person is the more people should take, with a grain of salt, what they say and think.

I am a proud, honest, hard-working, union-free, blue-collar, American worker who gives 100% in everything I do and have been with the same company for nearly 20 years. You can lump us into one not so flattering category all you want, but there are more of us out there than you realize. We are the middle class...the ones that fund the poor and protect the rich...we are glue that holds this nation together. Walk into my work place and tell these guys that they don't care about what they do and you'll probably find yourself missing some front teeth.

Billiam, I think both you and Why? are correct, each re different parts of this scenario. The passion you (and likely your coworkers) have is evident. IF the passion at your workplace existed throughout the U.S. economy, the deficiency in production quality or quality of experience that why? discusses might have a chance of turning around and heading in the opposite direction--toward being eradicated. Unfortunately (not because Why? is stating it, but because it is unfortunate for the country), I think everything Why? wrote in post #25 is correct, at least for most parts of the US. One of the reasons I like where I live so much is that I am able to find so many venues that are not that way...but there are some...some Wal-Marts, etc.....and this shouldn't be the case.....and I like shopping at Wal-Marts, etc where this isn't the case. I don't understand it, such workers LACK SELF RESPECT. It doesn't matter how much you are getting paid or what your job duties are, the experiences that Why? correctly describes in post #25 shouldn't be happening because those workers SHOULD HAVE THE SELF RESPECT NOT TO BEHAVE THAT WAY....It has to to with BEING RAISED PROPERLY. I know two families. They lived next door to each other. The wife in each family was a SAHM. In one family the father is a surgeon and in the other family the father was a large scale real estate developer and investor (he recently passed away). Both extremely well educated and affluent. The surgeon and his wife were the opposite of permissive (but not to the extreme of being militaristic) re raising their children. The investor and his wife were just the opposite. They built their house so that (in addition to the interior hall doors) each of the kids bedrooms had its own door to the exterior of the house. They kept the key to these locks away from the kids until THEY FELT the kids were old enough (most people said 'tsk tsk..too young'). They also poked fun at the surgeon and his wife for being too provincial and conservative re how they raised their kids......they said the surgeon and his wife NEEDED TO EVOLVE (Gee, I wonder where we've heard that lately?). The surgeon and his wife divorced after the kids were grown, but have a great relationship as ex-spouses. They have great relationships with their kids and their kids have great relationships with each other. The investor and his wife stayed married but, once their kids were grown, the kids ceased to have relationships with each other and pretty much with their parents as well. The family accountants had constructed a pretty elaborate family corporation for legal tax avoidance, so when the father died the kids didn't have to worry about being disinherited. All of the kids attended their dad's funeral, BUT NOT ONE OF THE KIDS COULD MUSTER THE SELF RESPECT NOR RESPECT FOR THEIR MOTHER TO COME BACK TO THE FAMILY HOME WITH THEIR MOTHER FOR EVEN A FEW MINUTES AFTER THE FUNERAL!.... ONLY A 5-10 MINUTE drive from the church!.....AND BEING RAISED PROPERLY CUTS ACROSS ECONOMIC CLASS LINES----another website I read quite a few posts on (but am not a member of) has a member who illustrates this. His father's job while he was growing up was very physically demanding, and his mom worked too. His father took him to job sites and let him pitch in as well. His father never made much money, but he grew up with a deep respect for both of his parents and how he was being raised. He ended up getting a BS and an MS in Computer Science from one of the top 50 universities in the world and is a Software Engineer and also trades various financial instruments on the side. He is extremely proud of his parents and his background......I do think that the pride you feel re your workplace does exist in multiple industries in the U.S....JUST NOT IN NEARLY ENOUGH INDUSTRIES. It really depends on the industry. I AGREE WITH Why? RE THE AUTO MANUFACTURING INDUSTRY IN THE U.S.........and the U.S. auto manufacturing industry is largely NOT like you have described your workplace (in my opinion). I haven't been to any auto plants in Japan, but I've been to several in the U.S. and several in Germany, and what I've seen bears out what Why? writes. Do a Bing search for 'Why can't Chrysler workers stop partying on their lunch break?'. This has happened three times at two different plants. Does this happen at auto plants in other countries or at Japanese, etc. plants in the U.S.? If it does, do the workers HAVE ENOUGH SELF RESPECT AND RESPECT FOR THE COMPANY TO NOT BE BLATANT ABOUT IT? I visited the Corvette factory (and Museum) in Bowling Green, KY. A table was set up in one of the halls and it was staffed with volunteers. THEY WERE SOLICITING DONATIONS FOR RETIRED UAW WORKERS!..Not disabled...just 'woe is me, I don't have enough to live on even in this low cost area'. I WONDER WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE VISITORS WERE LESS WELL OFF THAN THESE RETIREES. They also had two parking lots for the workers----one next to the plant where only workers who drove GM cars could park, and one farther away for workers with other types of cars...I HAVE SEEN THAT AT OTHER PLANTS AS WELL AND THAT, IN MY OPINION, IS CHILDISH. All that should matter is quality of the work and the dependability of the worker (especially in a union environment), not what kind of car they drive....there could be many reasons they need to make a particular vehicle choice. A good friend of mine was born in Southern California and (except for 1 year overseas when he was 2 or 3) lived there until the end of his Sophomore year in High School. At the end of his Sophomore year, his dad got transferred to Detroit. He graduated from Rochester Adams High School in Rochester Hills, MI (Madonna is an alum) and he said that NO ONE WOULD DARE DRIVE A FOREIGN CAR TO SCHOOL AND PARK IT IN THE LOT! I visited Detroit in 2006 and in 2007 in my Yaris and was appalled by the number of people who would cut me off or POINT TO THE TOYOTA EMBLEM ON MY CAR AT STOPLIGHTS AND THEN FLIP ME OFF!.........I have read quite a few comments, on movie review sites, on political sites, etc. re the movie Waiting for Superman. Many of the teachers write that the fact that test scores, etc. in Union states being higher than in Right to Work states shows that the Right to Work states are behind the times, that they need to change so they can have higher test scores! I think the teachers fail to see that many other people might look at this as though the teachers feel they need to have certain perks before they're going to give it their all to help the students achieve those high marks and test scores. New Jersey is a Union state and teachers have quite a few perks relatively speaking, yet look at the attitude many of them have when speaking to Gov. Christie in public meetings...SOME of them LACK DIGNITY at such meetings and act like recalcitrant children. I've seen the lead rep for one of the transit unions in the NYC area interviewed about striking and he sounded like a recalcitrant child. As Thomas Friedman has written, THE WORLD IS FLAT. Capital is mobile. The latest technology is virtually ubiquitous. I think too few people in the U.S. realize what the world is like outside our borders. The number of US Passports issued started to rise even before the laws started to change in 2007. I hope this trend continues....and Billiam, I hope more U.S. workplaces become like your workplace. If Toyota goes to complete TMMF production for the Yaris for the U.S. market before I buy my next car, that might be enough to tip the scales and cause me to choose a Prius C (or some unknowable yet to be released car) for my next car instead of another Yaris. Unless the landscape changes, I only want a car built in Japan and I think Why? and others have (far more eloquently than I could have) illustrated why that particular feeling I have has merit.

[DebbyM46227]

Originally Posted by tk-421

I didn't know it was stereotype reinforcement day today...

Whatever......just stating how I feel about Japanese workers vs. other auto workers. If my Yaris was made in France, I never would have purchased it.

[DebbyM46227]

Originally Posted by Sparcoboy

IMHO you're all just being stereothypical and racist, like saying all americans are fat people who have no interest in the cars they put together. I drive a french Yaris (like all diesel Yaris) and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I read hear is "I heard this" an "I heard that"
Some people just don't base their judgements on facts.

So? Maybe I am. I don't care, I'm not exactly a "politically correct" person. Far from it.

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by tk-421

I didn't know it was stereotype reinforcement day today...

yeah those French are almost a lazy as Mexicans, sheesh ;)

[tooter]

I think that the negative opinions expressed about US union auto workers are the result of so many customers' trust having been so flagrantly violated for so many years.

It is very difficult to earn back violated trust, even if increased US auto quality deserves it.

I'm a completely loyal customer of Toyota's suberb engineering, and count myself fortunate to own a Yaris as well as a Tacoma which was also built in Japan.

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

yeah those French are almost a lazy as Mexicans, sheesh ;)

Almost... Keep taking those long naps and drinking all that wine, though, and you'll get there sooner than you think!

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Billiam

The interior components have never been the strong point of any Yaris regardless of it's production location or final destination. That tends to be the product of it's "entry level" status and price point....and the '12 N. American version is no exception. That said...whatever quality/tolerance targets Toyota has set for the N.A. Yaris will be dublicated for the French produced N.A. bound version....rest assured.

I cringe when I hear someone mention 'creaks and rattles' re a car. I have yet to experience any with my Yaris, nor with any car I have ever owned that was built in Japan. I know 'creaks and rattles' when I hear them. All of the cars on my street are quiet and sound well built except one, a Chrysler Sebring. My neighbor across the street owns this offender. I can hear the creaks in that car every time he drives down the street when I'm home (once per day at least).He,of course, gets out of the car after parking it and those creaks are even worse than the previous ones. That car is a true POS. His wife has a rather quiet Civic sedan. They are the only neighbors I ever hear arguing. I know I'd be upset if I had to drive that POS Sebring.
Sorry Billiam, mrpj's experience may be anecdotal, but it is first hand and delivered in a measured and thoughtful tone. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'd take mrpj's experience over assurances from Toyota until those assurances have been proven to be correct over time in those new circumstances.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Sparcoboy

IMHO you're all just being stereothypical and racist, like saying all americans are fat people who have no interest in the cars they put together. I drive a french Yaris (like all diesel Yaris) and there's nothing wrong with it. The only thing I read hear is "I heard this" an "I heard that"
Some people just don't base their judgements on facts.

Well, no. MRPJ wrote from personal experience with a French built Yaris, not hearing about someone else's French built Yaris.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tooter

I think that the negative opinions expressed about US union auto workers are the result of so many customers' trust having been so flagrantly violated for so many years.

It is very difficult to earn back violated trust, even if increased US auto quality deserves it.

I'm a completely loyal customer of Toyota's suberb engineering, and count myself fortunate to own a Yaris as well as a Tacoma which was also built in Japan.

This ^^^^^

[why?]

Originally Posted by brianeno

Very oddball move IMO. What do you think about this? I couldn't copy and paste the article, but here check out the exact details.. Would love to hear opinions on this :)

http://www.web2carz.com/autos/news/1...tion-to-france

It is exactly what the article stated. The Yen is staying at its same strength while the rest of the worlds currencies are dropping, meaning that it costs Japanese makers more to make the cars in Japan compared to Europe or the US.

The one effect I would like to see is all the European options that they don't give the US might be allowed. I don't think it will happen though. Or the other engines.

The price of the 2012 Yaris is completely because of the weakening of the US dollar. I have no doubt they would like to have a stripper model costing $9,999.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by mrpj

In the U.K. - remember we call it "treasure island" or "rip off Britain"- the Yaris is not a "cheap" car. It's nearly always the case that we pay in Pounds Sterling the same as you pay in $U.S. So for the premium prices we pay it can't be too much to ask for good quality components.
I still have the opinion - hopefully that's allowed? - a French built Yaris will not be as good as those built elsewhere.
I was in a local Toyota dealership a few months ago, looking at the Verso S (a grown up Yaris!), built in Japan. I compared it to a MkIII Yaris in the same showroom. It was far superior in both component fit and quality. I commented about this to the saleswoman and she agreed (off the record) that the Japanese built cars are far superior to those built elsewhere.

+ I might (given the strong Yen) be willing to pay more for a Japanese made Yaris, but I realize that competitiveness within its market segment is likely the primary issue in the 'where to build for which market' scenario.

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by tooter

I think that the negative opinions expressed about US union auto workers are the result of so many customers' trust having been so flagrantly violated for so many years.

It is very difficult to earn back violated trust, even if increased US auto quality deserves it.:

That's what the average person can't understand because they aren't directly involved in the auto manufacturing business. All most people see is that those "darned American workers" can't do it right. What they can't understand is just how rampant the mismanagement was in the Big 3 during the 70's and '80's....particularly GM. There were layers and layers of redundant management who were completely disconnected from both the product they were producing and the people who built them. Then there were the utterly complacent designers and engineers. They were both reluctant to branch out and embrace new technologies and contemporary designs...relying a few people to come up with some half-baked platforms and drivetrains so they could slap multiple nameplates on them and call it a day. Throw in the fact that parts suppliers were often times given little to work with in terms of specs and bean counters high-fiving one another because of the money they saved at all levels of design and production and you have a recipe for bad things.

Major model changes became a joke at most plants. Underdeveloped vehicles with ill-fitting parts were the norm. Line workers were practically left to fend for themselves when it came to new-model training too....given little training for the models they were expected to produce.

Then along comes Toyota and agrees to a joint venture with GM at the Freemont plant. Until 1983 that plant was the epitome of what I just described. Toyota says "hey, we'll keep your workforce and train them using The Toyota Production System". In no time they were producing Corollas and Novas at quality levels no-par with Japan. The combination of good designs, good engineering, good part suppliers, good management and training under TPS resulted in an outstanding product. This was the same workforce that was churning out crappy Cavaliers and selling drugs in the bathrooms not long before that....but all the pieces around it changed for the better to support that workforce.

GM tried to duplicate TPS on their own in the early '90's with Saturn...practically copying TPS verbatim...at least in terms of production. The employees loved it as they were treated with respect and fairness which is the fundmentals of TPS. Unfortunately some "old GM ghosts" crept out of the closet and sabotaged Saturn in the end...that being poor engineering and parts supplier problems and those pesky bean-counters. There was little wrong with how the actual vehicles were built. But when the support network around the worker fails, the product fails.

The best assembly line in the word can not "build out" quality issues that arise before the vehicle even hits the assembly line. Keep that in mind.