US Yaris to be imported from France ?

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

I cringe when I hear someone mention 'creaks and rattles' re a car. I have yet to experience any with my Yaris, nor with any car I have ever owned that was built in Japan. I know 'creaks and rattles' when I hear them. All of the cars on my street are quiet and sound well built except one, a Chrysler Sebring. My neighbor across the street owns this offender. I can hear the creaks in that car every time he drives down the street when I'm home (once per day at least).He,of course, gets out of the car after parking it and those creaks are even worse than the previous ones. That car is a true POS. His wife has a rather quiet Civic sedan. They are the only neighbors I ever hear arguing. I know I'd be upset if I had to drive that POS Sebring.
Sorry Billiam, mrpj's experience may be anecdotal, but it is first hand and delivered in a measured and thoughtful tone. I'm pretty skeptical, but I'd take mrpj's experience over assurances from Toyota until those assurances have been proven to be correct over time in those new circumstances.

You would be surprised at how many creaks and rattles are a result of poor design and/or engineering. For the most part interior components only fit together one way. There is almost no adjustment with these pieces.

Your Yaris is creak-free because it was engineerined well with parts that fit together as they were designed too. Not how it was assemebled.

[Kioshi]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

+ I might (given the strong Yen) be willing to pay more for a Japanese made Yaris,

THIS ^

I honestly wouldn't cut corners when it comes to quality. Being an asian myself, I dont cheap out like the rest of the Asian people here in California, who want more bang for their buck and expect GREAT quality....

I'd fork out more money for purchase that would last me many years, is durable, and reliable. <---this applies to any items, not just automobiles.

I see the the majority of the world scumming to having lower quality things. More profit for them...

[tooter]

Originally Posted by Billiam

That's what the average person can't understand because they aren't directly involved in the auto manufacturing business. All most people see is that those "darned American workers" can't do it right. What they can't understand is just how rampant the mismanagement was in the Big 3 during the 70's and '80's....particularly GM. There were layers and layers of redundant management who were completely disconnected from both the product they were producing and the people who built them.

I wholly agree, Billiam...
I can easily believe that it is just as much the fault of crappy managers as it is crappy workers. Each deserves the other because their crappy values match.

All the customer sees is the end result... a crappy car.

Screw over a customer really good like that just once... and they never come back.

There's hardly anything I have more contempt for than an inept unethical shoddy company that can only continue to exist because it's being propped up by undeserved liberal government bailouts and subsidies.

[Sparcoboy]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

Well, no. MRPJ wrote from personal experience with a French built Yaris, not hearing about someone else's French built Yaris.

I can see he says he drive's anything but a Toyota, so the Japanese would not have been good for him anyhow. And well bad apples exist everywhere, remember that the second gen Yaris was developed is France, whether it's built in France or Japan.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Billiam

You would be surprised at how many creaks and rattles are a result of poor design and/or engineering. For the most part interior components only fit together one way. There is almost no adjustment with these pieces.

Your Yaris is creak-free because it was engineering well with parts that fit together as they were designed too. Not how it was assemebled.

^This. I work for an automotive supplier and we spend tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars on "creaks and rattles" issues before a part ever hits production. Assembly is rarely to blame: it's either poorly designed or was made from materials that are prone to squeak.

[mrpj]

"I can see he says he drive's anything but a Toyota, so the Japanese would not have been good for him anyhow."

Not necessarily so re a Japanese built Toyota. The French Yaris I had briefly was my first Toyota and because of the experience of the poor build quality and poor component quality it will be my last Toyota. Plus the fact it had a MultiMode Transmission (MMT) which is an automated manual gearbox. Think yourselves lucky they didn't try and sell this in N. America! I have never owned a car that rattles and squeaks, so the Yaris was a big disappointment in this respect when their big advertising selling point is "quality".
I don't doubt their cars are very reliable but that is only part of the quality consideration for me. As indicated in my earlier post, the Japanese built Verso S seemed to be very well put together. I haven't driven one but tapping various parts of interior trim didn't produce any rattles - the Yaris is a different beast in this respect - you dare not tap the trim for fear of bits of it falling off or breaking!
There are lots of comments about rattles, squeaks and poor interiors on a U.K. Toyota forum, not just confined to the Yaris. The U.K. built Auris also comes in for criticism in this respect. The Aygo, built in E. Europe, has water leak problems into the interior. This does not signify quality to me.
Apologies for being so negative. I can only write of the experience I had.

[DebbyM46227]

Nookandcrannycar, ITA with you, even though your post was hard to read, being so large with no paragraph breaks.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

^This. I work for an automotive supplier and we spend tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dollars on "creaks and rattles" issues before a part ever hits production. Assembly is rarely to blame: it's either poorly designed or was made from materials that are prone to squeak.

If assembly has no bearing on creaks/rattles/squeaks, and many U.S. market customers with Yari built in Japan don't experience such annoyances, then what would account for MRPJ having such an experience with his French built Yaris? A difference re materials?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by DebbyM46227

Nookandcrannycar, ITA with you, even though your post was hard to read, being so large with no paragraph breaks.

Thanks. I've been having issues with the system automatically signing me out without notice and didn't want to experiment re which key on my particular computer facilitate starting a new paragraph. Another member PM'd me after that post and I'm now following his correct instruction re which key to use. However, my indentation on new paragraphs is being pulled to the left margin when my post hits the thread after clicking on submit reply.

P.S. - I looked at Tooter's post #57 after posting this and realized how I can put the info from the PM I received to good use and 'space' as he does. I like the visual clarity of that post....no strain.

[Thirty-Nine]

FYI, I have quite a few rattles in my Yaris. Perhaps that's due to the stiffer suspension rattling things more, though.

I'm a firm believer that country of assembly is irrelevant. What is important is quality control. If Toyota implements and enforces the same quality control at every facility, the product should be the same, no?

This is why some stuff that comes out of China is junk, while other thing are very high quality. It's all about the quality control.

However, I agree with the people saying a lot has to do with engineering, too. You can have the best assemblers on earth, but if the product is a piece of crap to begin with, the assembly doesn't matter.

I'd assume the French-built Yaris, when put side by side to a Japanese-built Yaris will be identical in terms of materials. Unless the bolts are tightened, the welds aren't correct, or the parts aren't snapped together as they should be according to an engineer, one would think things won't change.

Keep in mind other car companies are doing this sort of thing, too (especially the Japanese brands due to the strong yen)—Honda is going to built the Fit in Mexico, for example.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Billiam

You would be surprised at how many creaks and rattles are a result of poor design and/or engineering. For the most part interior components only fit together one way. There is almost no adjustment with these pieces.

Your Yaris is creak-free because it was engineering well with parts that fit together as they were designed too. Not how it was assemebled.

I am, as others have stated they are, open to a French built Yaris proving itself to be the equal of the current U.S. spec Yaris over time. I just don't think that will happen. I think it will prove to be inferior. I hope I am wrong.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

FYI, I have quite a few rattles in my Yaris. Perhaps that's due to the stiffer suspension rattling things more, though.

I'm a firm believer that country of assembly is irrelevant. What is important is quality control. If Toyota implements and enforces the same quality control at every facility, the product should be the same, no?

This is why some stuff that comes out of China is junk, while other thing are very high quality. It's all about the quality control.

However, I agree with the people saying a lot has to do with engineering, too. You can have the best assemblers on earth, but if the product is a piece of crap to begin with, the assembly doesn't matter.

I'd assume the French-built Yaris, when put side by side to a Japanese-built Yaris will be identical in terms of materials. Unless the bolts are tightened, the welds aren't correct, or the parts aren't snapped together as they should be according to an engineer, one would think things won't change.

Keep in mind other car companies are doing this sort of thing, too (especially the Japanese brands due to the strong yen)—Honda is going to built the Fit in Mexico, for example.

The suspension on my Yaris is stock. I had a Bilstein sport kit on my GTI and a different Bilstein sport kit on another VW prior to owning the GTI. In both cases, creaks/rattles etc. took on 'lives of their own' after these suspension changes. I was attempting to make a stock vs. stock, apples to apples comparison.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Kioshi

THIS ^

I honestly wouldn't cut corners when it comes to quality. Being an asian myself, I dont cheap out like the rest of the Asian people here in California, who want more bang for their buck and expect GREAT quality....

I'd fork out more money for purchase that would last me many years, is durable, and reliable. <---this applies to any items, not just automobiles.

I see the the majority of the world scumming to having lower quality things. More profit for them...

I agree, and would also add THOUGHTFUL AND WELL EXECUTED DESIGN to your points of durability and reliability.

I tend to be very hard on the 'power prong' on the periphery of laptop computers (where the power cord plugs into the computer). I have ended up abandoning several laptops in the past because the cost of repairing this 'wear' issue wasn't a worthwhile investment. The Mag Safe solution that Apple implemented has made this a moot point for me. I have a netbook, a MacBook Pro, and several PC laptops. I decided, after purchasing the MacBook Pro (and adding Win 7 to it), to use the MacBook Pro whenever I thought that particular ergonomic situation would tax a PC laptop traditional power prong. Since adopting this self imposed policy, I have experienced zero 'power prong' failures.

Microsoft, IMO, created an unmitigated disaster with Vista on many levels. When they created the 'value pack' for Windows 7 Home Premium (3 for $149.00) I bought it and updated my two Vista laptops and added Win 7 to my MacBook Pro. The result...fantastic! As many have stated in many different venues, Windows 7 is what Vista should have been. Much better design. Much better execution.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tooter

I wholly agree, Billiam...
I can easily believe that it is just as much the fault of crappy managers as it is crappy workers. Each deserves the other because their crappy values match.

All the customer sees is the end result... a crappy car.

Screw over a customer really good like that just once... and they never come back.

There's hardly anything I have more contempt for than an inept unethical shoddy company that can only continue to exist because it's being propped up by undeserved liberal government bailouts and subsidies.

The final paragraph in your post is food for thought (it screams GM and Chrysler ). Earlier in this thread I posted about my neighbor's creaky Chrysler Sebring. I thought about (but didn't write about) how this car is such a contrast to ALL of the other cars on my street. Until recently ALL of these other cars were either BUILT in Japan, or are FORD trucks/SUVs.... and are creak/rattle free. The only recent change is that one neighbor adopted a child and traded in her Lexus for a brand new Fiesta.....time will tell with the Fiesta. One of my neighbors used to have a Yaris, but when he started his own business and eliminated his long commute, he traded the Yaris in for an Infiniti G37.

[yarista]

Yarisites, be happy, like it/love it/live it, see it as just skippy, 'cause ya know-like they isn't following suit with VW and sending production to Mexico.

[tk-421]

... and that is a bad thing because.....

What will it take to convince the haters that country of manufacture has no discernible change in overall build quality? A couple of people here actually worked in US car plants and can already confirm that most of those squeaking issues are due to bad design. And bad designers can be found all over the world AFAIK...

Instead of blaming the country where the car is being assembled (to spec, no less), blame the people that approved the crappy design in the first place. Remember kids, a door can only fit into a frame in a certain way. Robots assemble a car in exactly the same manner every time no matter which wall they are plugged to.

And, crucially, people who don't do their jobs correctly tend to get fired much more quickly when the boss stops making money.

The beauty of capitalism lies in the fact that you get to put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something then don't pay for it. If you want a car to be manufactured in the USA then stop buying cars built elsewhere! Just be prepared to pay a premium for the privilege.

Finally, please stop complaining over stuff that is, and has always been, 100% under your control, and just fix it already.

/rant

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by tk-421

... and that is a bad thing because.....

What will it take to convince the haters that country of manufacture has no discernible change in overall build quality? A couple of people here actually worked in US car plants and can already confirm that most of those squeaking issues are due to bad design. And bad designers can be found all over the world AFAIK...

Instead of blaming the country where the car is being assembled (to spec, no less), blame the people that approved the crappy design in the first place. Remember kids, a door can only fit into a frame in a certain way. Robots assemble a car in exactly the same manner every time no matter which wall they are plugged to.

And, crucially, people who don't do their jobs correctly tend to get fired much more quickly when the boss stops making money.

The beauty of capitalism lies in the fact that you get to put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something then don't pay for it. If you want a car to be manufactured in the USA then stop buying cars built elsewhere! Just be prepared to pay a premium for the privilege.

Finally, please stop complaining over stuff that is, and has always been, 100% under your control, and just fix it already.

/rant

Then how would you answer the short question I posed in post #62 that no one has attempted to answer?

[Billiam]

Originally Posted by tk-421

... and that is a bad thing because.....

What will it take to convince the haters that country of manufacture has no discernible change in overall build quality? A couple of people here actually worked in US car plants and can already confirm that most of those squeaking issues are due to bad design. And bad designers can be found all over the world AFAIK...

Instead of blaming the country where the car is being assembled (to spec, no less), blame the people that approved the crappy design in the first place. Remember kids, a door can only fit into a frame in a certain way. Robots assemble a car in exactly the same manner every time no matter which wall they are plugged to.

And, crucially, people who don't do their jobs correctly tend to get fired much more quickly when the boss stops making money.

The beauty of capitalism lies in the fact that you get to put your money where your mouth is. If you don't like something then don't pay for it. If you want a car to be manufactured in the USA then stop buying cars built elsewhere! Just be prepared to pay a premium for the privilege.

Finally, please stop complaining over stuff that is, and has always been, 100% under your control, and just fix it already.

/rant

This man speaks the truth.