Another S/C'd member worried about his AFR - Page 3 - Toyota Yaris Forums

PETERPOOP · 03-24-2009, 02:52 AM

That's our goal!

bearda · 03-24-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PETERPOOP

Well you're definately not running as lean as noogie and I. I ordered a scangauge II from garm tonight. Hopefully I'll get it soon and have more accurate readings.

What is it you're trying to monitor with the Scangauge?

LtNoogie · 03-24-2009, 09:25 AM

Most likely ignition timing at different RPM during WOT. We might be able to compare this to his air/fuel ratio from the dyno run.

Doc Zaius · 03-24-2009, 11:46 AM

I was pretty sure that lean = more power..? But more dangerous.

I still have yet to buy gauges, so I can't be any help to you guys right now. Although (interestingly, whoopeee) I remember taking some rubber line off something and there being a fair bit of oil/muck inside it. Don't know which line. But perhaps I should get an oil catch-can too.

PETERPOOP · 03-24-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Zaius

I was pretty sure that lean = more power..? But more dangerous.

The guy who did my dyno was saying all cars are different. Some guys make their cars run lean because their car responds with more HP when it is lean. Other guys lose HP when it is ran lean. I guess the Yaris is the case of a car losing HP when running lean at higher RPMs.

LtNoogie · 03-24-2009, 12:12 PM

I've contacted my dyno guy to see how much he charges to tune this little beast. Afterall, it's now my little project car.

As a side note, I set the S/C to OFF this morning when I got on the freeway. I did not see any ignition retard down to single digits. I am only guessing but this tells me that the ECU is sensing pre-igition during boost and is retarding the timing, which is what my pictures showed in the other thread. That can't be good for engine life or max power output. When there's no boost and no pre-ignition, the ECU leaves the inigition timing in the low to mid 20's.

Nexus1155 · 03-24-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

I was pretty sure that lean = more power..? But more dangerous.

There needs to be a harmony, thats why theres a recommended range for supercharged vehicles

More fuel = more allowable ignition advance.

You ideally want no knock correction as it takes the ECU a bit for every degree of correction where you lose a severe amount of power. It should really be checked on the cars with misfired on how bad it is!!!

yaris-me · 03-24-2009, 01:42 PM

Hi Long. Have you considered maybe one of your fuel injectors might be clogged? I try running a high quality injector cleaner in your gas and see if the condition improves. You are trying to eliminate all variables?

whooppee777 · 03-24-2009, 03:22 PM

could the power enterprises camcom correct a/f ratios by manually advancing or retarding the timing?

CASTREX · 03-24-2009, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whooppee777

could the power enterprises camcom correct a/f ratios by manually advancing or retarding the timing?

To correct the AFR you need to add or sustract fuel not timing.

However, by sustracting enough timing you can make the car run safe even with those lean AFR's you guys are seeing.

Theoretically you could tune the car with the Camcom... however, I haven't seen any camcom sucsesfully installed in a Yaris.... yet.

Some times you can find those for cheap on ebay... it worths a shot.

LtNoogie · 03-24-2009, 03:52 PM

I can't wait to see what a properly tuned Blitz'd Yaris can put out. I know we've been admonished not to put larger injectors on this car but hear me out on this theory.

What if the current fuel system with the Blitz piggyback fuel controller cannot pump enough fuel into the cylinders during WOT, leading to a lean condition. The ECU detects pre-ignition and has to retard timing to protect the engine, and as a consequence robs us of the maximum power the S/C can put out.

If I put slightly, not hugely, larger injectors in the car, it may run less lean during WOT and the ignition retard is less, giving more power. During idle or light throttle, the ECU detects a rich condition from the O2 sensor and is able to dial back the fuel to maintain proper AFR. Remember, I said slightly larger injectors, not fire hoses. If the increase in fuel is within the ECU's cabability to control, that could just work.

Anyhow, that's the theory I want to present to my dyno guy if I have him tune the car.

Doc Zaius · 03-24-2009, 04:04 PM

^^^ Quite excited about the sound of that!

CASTREX · 03-24-2009, 04:09 PM

Garm's car has been running with TC injectors on the OEM ECU right?

And iirc he didn't had any idle or part throttle problems... just a lean condition at WOT... but that was @ 180 whp

I say your theory is worth a shot if you can find some injectors for cheap.

Look for injectors from a Celica GTs, corolla/ matrix XRS. I think those are a little smaller than the TC's.

You can look into the 6 gen celica forums for those..

Nexus1155 · 03-24-2009, 04:45 PM

well holy crap if that the case, are you maxxing out the stock ones? any way to tell? I mean anything over what? 85% efficiency is bad you want it from atleast 65% to be running somewhat safe?

But see this is the problem, you have no way to scaled the injectors constant and must calculate this pretty good based on the amount of fuel it will be dumping in there....Larger injector + same constant = stays open for a longer time = more fuel = richer afr.... good luck

On a GT28 1.8T A4 I was tuning it started out with 210 or 280cc depending on the fpr with an afr of 11-12 while driving, swapped in the 550cc knocked us down to around 8.5-9.0 before i properly calculated the scalar to bring it back up. just to give you a headsup.

LtNoogie · 03-24-2009, 06:07 PM

That's why I'm leaving this to a professional tuner. I'd end up with stacks of different size injectors and totally frustrated.

turboecho2005 · 03-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Megasquirt is a viable option! it can be done... and it has been done....

I am running it in my car. Its not overly complicated either if you have a little bit of electronics background. I have helped to install and tune with megasquirt before.

Any shop should be able to make you a wiring harness.

Nexus1155 · 03-24-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

I am running it in my car. Its not overly complicated either if you have a little bit of electronics background. I have helped to install and tune with megasquirt before.

I don't know if they have a standalone and a plug in play but ive only seen standalone, but im sure you can wire it in tandem.

did you install it on a yaris or an echo?

LtNoogie · 03-24-2009, 07:31 PM

Ok, I just spent a half hour on the phone with dyno guy. He does not recommend that I start with larger injectors or more powerful fuel pump. He recommends a boost-sensitive adjustable fuel pressure regulator.

He also states that his expertise is with muscle cars and not ligament cars. (my words

)

Hey, we have enough Blitz'd owners on this forum now that each of us should try one tuning method and report back. And then we slowly go from there!

I hear crickets chirping.

03-24-2009, 09:25 AM	#39
LtNoogie View User's Garage Drives: '08 Bayou Blue LB AT Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 2,517	Most likely ignition timing at different RPM during WOT. We might be able to compare this to his air/fuel ratio from the dyno run. __________________ aFe Intake \| Blitz Supercharger \| Megan Header \| TRD Exhaust \| NST Pulley Set TRD Shocks/Struts \| Tanabe NF210 Springs \| TRD Sway Bar \| Motegi TRAKLITE wheels \| Kuhmo Ecsta XS R1 Concepts slotted rotors \| Carbotech 1521 brake pads \| stainless steel brake lines \| Seibon vented carbon fiber hood

03-24-2009, 11:46 AM	#40
Doc Zaius Lurker supreme! View User's Garage Drives: old and boosted! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 792	I was pretty sure that lean = more power..? But more dangerous. I still have yet to buy gauges, so I can't be any help to you guys right now. Although (interestingly, whoopeee) I remember taking some rubber line off something and there being a fair bit of oil/muck inside it. Don't know which line. But perhaps I should get an oil catch-can too. __________________ 2006 Red Blitzed RS 5-door

03-24-2009, 12:12 PM	#42
LtNoogie View User's Garage Drives: '08 Bayou Blue LB AT Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 2,517	I've contacted my dyno guy to see how much he charges to tune this little beast. Afterall, it's now my little project car. As a side note, I set the S/C to OFF this morning when I got on the freeway. I did not see any ignition retard down to single digits. I am only guessing but this tells me that the ECU is sensing pre-igition during boost and is retarding the timing, which is what my pictures showed in the other thread. That can't be good for engine life or max power output. When there's no boost and no pre-ignition, the ECU leaves the inigition timing in the low to mid 20's. __________________ aFe Intake \| Blitz Supercharger \| Megan Header \| TRD Exhaust \| NST Pulley Set TRD Shocks/Struts \| Tanabe NF210 Springs \| TRD Sway Bar \| Motegi TRAKLITE wheels \| Kuhmo Ecsta XS R1 Concepts slotted rotors \| Carbotech 1521 brake pads \| stainless steel brake lines \| Seibon vented carbon fiber hood Last edited by LtNoogie; 03-24-2009 at 03:44 PM.

03-24-2009, 03:22 PM	#45
whooppee777 I used to have 1700 posts View User's Garage Drives: 2008 Yaris Hatch Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 808	could the power enterprises camcom correct a/f ratios by manually advancing or retarding the timing? __________________ *First Boosted Yaris On The East Coast*

03-24-2009, 03:52 PM	#47
LtNoogie View User's Garage Drives: '08 Bayou Blue LB AT Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 2,517	I can't wait to see what a properly tuned Blitz'd Yaris can put out. I know we've been admonished not to put larger injectors on this car but hear me out on this theory. What if the current fuel system with the Blitz piggyback fuel controller cannot pump enough fuel into the cylinders during WOT, leading to a lean condition. The ECU detects pre-ignition and has to retard timing to protect the engine, and as a consequence robs us of the maximum power the S/C can put out. If I put slightly, not hugely, larger injectors in the car, it may run less lean during WOT and the ignition retard is less, giving more power. During idle or light throttle, the ECU detects a rich condition from the O2 sensor and is able to dial back the fuel to maintain proper AFR. Remember, I said slightly larger injectors, not fire hoses. If the increase in fuel is within the ECU's cabability to control, that could just work. Anyhow, that's the theory I want to present to my dyno guy if I have him tune the car. __________________ aFe Intake \| Blitz Supercharger \| Megan Header \| TRD Exhaust \| NST Pulley Set TRD Shocks/Struts \| Tanabe NF210 Springs \| TRD Sway Bar \| Motegi TRAKLITE wheels \| Kuhmo Ecsta XS R1 Concepts slotted rotors \| Carbotech 1521 brake pads \| stainless steel brake lines \| Seibon vented carbon fiber hood

03-24-2009, 02:52 AM	#37
PETERPOOP View User's Garage Drives: 08 white liftback Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oahu Posts: 3,674	That's our goal!

03-24-2009, 01:42 PM	#44
yaris-me Learn to Relax Drives: 2007, Meteorite, LB Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 2,070	Hi Long. Have you considered maybe one of your fuel injectors might be clogged? I try running a high quality injector cleaner in your gas and see if the condition improves. You are trying to eliminate all variables?

03-24-2009, 04:04 PM	#48
Doc Zaius Lurker supreme! View User's Garage Drives: old and boosted! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 792	^^^ Quite excited about the sound of that! __________________ 2006 Red Blitzed RS 5-door

03-24-2009, 04:09 PM	#49
CASTREX Who said Yaris was slow? View User's Garage Drives: Yaris T-Sport 2008 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Costa Rica Posts: 1,287	Garm's car has been running with TC injectors on the OEM ECU right? And iirc he didn't had any idle or part throttle problems... just a lean condition at WOT... but that was @ 180 whp I say your theory is worth a shot if you can find some injectors for cheap. Look for injectors from a Celica GTs, corolla/ matrix XRS. I think those are a little smaller than the TC's. You can look into the 6 gen celica forums for those..

03-24-2009, 04:45 PM	#50
Nexus1155 Bathroom + Laptop = <3 Drives: Audi Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dorchester Posts: 1,009	well holy crap if that the case, are you maxxing out the stock ones? any way to tell? I mean anything over what? 85% efficiency is bad you want it from atleast 65% to be running somewhat safe? But see this is the problem, you have no way to scaled the injectors constant and must calculate this pretty good based on the amount of fuel it will be dumping in there....Larger injector + same constant = stays open for a longer time = more fuel = richer afr.... good luck On a GT28 1.8T A4 I was tuning it started out with 210 or 280cc depending on the fpr with an afr of 11-12 while driving, swapped in the 550cc knocked us down to around 8.5-9.0 before i properly calculated the scalar to bring it back up. just to give you a headsup.

03-24-2009, 06:07 PM	#51
LtNoogie View User's Garage Drives: '08 Bayou Blue LB AT Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 2,517	That's why I'm leaving this to a professional tuner. I'd end up with stacks of different size injectors and totally frustrated. __________________ aFe Intake \| Blitz Supercharger \| Megan Header \| TRD Exhaust \| NST Pulley Set TRD Shocks/Struts \| Tanabe NF210 Springs \| TRD Sway Bar \| Motegi TRAKLITE wheels \| Kuhmo Ecsta XS R1 Concepts slotted rotors \| Carbotech 1521 brake pads \| stainless steel brake lines \| Seibon vented carbon fiber hood

03-24-2009, 06:17 PM	#52
turboecho2005 Drives: 2005 Toyota Echo Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario Posts: 177	Megasquirt is a viable option! it can be done... and it has been done.... I am running it in my car. Its not overly complicated either if you have a little bit of electronics background. I have helped to install and tune with megasquirt before. Any shop should be able to make you a wiring harness. __________________ Project Slowtop - Twin Engine 4AGE Blacktop Vitz - Twin Turbo - 503hp 1987 Nissan Maxima - 40,000 original miles - Slammed 1991 Isuzu Impulse RS AWD Turbo - approx 250hp - Winter Beater 1989 Isuzu Imark RS - Mint Condition - 0 rust - 100% factory :) - Summer Cruiser - 100% restored 1986 VW Jetta Wolfsburg - 120,000km - Mint condition. TDI swap in progress

03-24-2009, 07:31 PM	#54
LtNoogie View User's Garage Drives: '08 Bayou Blue LB AT Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 2,517	Ok, I just spent a half hour on the phone with dyno guy. He does not recommend that I start with larger injectors or more powerful fuel pump. He recommends a boost-sensitive adjustable fuel pressure regulator. He also states that his expertise is with muscle cars and not ligament cars. (my words ) Hey, we have enough Blitz'd owners on this forum now that each of us should try one tuning method and report back. And then we slowly go from there! I hear crickets chirping. __________________ aFe Intake \| Blitz Supercharger \| Megan Header \| TRD Exhaust \| NST Pulley Set TRD Shocks/Struts \| Tanabe NF210 Springs \| TRD Sway Bar \| Motegi TRAKLITE wheels \| Kuhmo Ecsta XS R1 Concepts slotted rotors \| Carbotech 1521 brake pads \| stainless steel brake lines \| Seibon vented carbon fiber hood

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