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Old 12-23-2012, 08:31 PM   #109
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I ran into my old ones today and did a comparison with a set of new ones (I always keep some on hand in case someone comes by that hasn't had them replaced yet).

Bolts - Old New.jpg

My old ones, which had about 25,000 miles and 4 Winters on them just had light surface rust on the threads and very light surface rust at the base of the head. The interesting thing that I did notice is different markings on the head. In theory, this would mean a different bolt strength class, but according to the service manual, for a bolt with an included washer, either one or two marks means that the bolt is a class 6T bolt.

At least, if nothing more, the changed markings allow one to easily tell if they have new ones (old left, new right):

Bolts - Grade.jpg
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:59 PM   #110
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I would think that it would be in very extreme cases that those bolts would break. Rust .. yes maybe but I think that it would take some bad conditions to make them fail. But what do I know.

I will maybe have the Toyota dealer check on mine the next time I am there, next spring for my oil change.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:49 AM   #111
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Thanks ! We have the old bolts . Wonder if Yaris Claus ( a.k.a. CT ) will replace them Christmas . Will leave cookies , milk , and a socket wrench kit in the trunk .

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:11 PM   #112
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I am assuming they rust through to a certain point, then the high forces of the subframe blows the head off the bolts. There is a huge load on the subframe bolts when flexing the body. As I said, one of my bolts was completely immersed in water even after 2-3wks of no water exposure (rain or washing). If you live in a salty part of the world, you could have those bolts immersed in salt water 365 days a year. In marine applications it is possible to lose almost 1mm/yr of steel. In Scott's picture of the old bolts, the one on the left is through the zinc near the head of the bolt. Once the zinc coating is gone, those 14mm(?) bolts won't last long in those conditions. And that location is typically where bolts will pop apart under tension as well.

I keep forgetting to see if I can read the TSB at work yet. I am curious if they are doing anything to prevent water/salt from getting into the bolt holes again or not. My right side has a little crash damage, which allows the water to drain, so it's easy enough to correct.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:54 PM   #113
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I don't quite understand it. My Yaris is 2008 with JTDKT vin, but according to the tsb it's not affected as it follows the production change on Shokki plant. How come some the TSB says 2006-2009? Are there some 08s made after some 09s?
And should I trust the tsb?
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Old 12-24-2012, 04:00 PM   #114
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Another thing, anyone had issues with bolts in the rear wheel arches (not too sure, probably subframe bolts) in front of the wheels? I am seeing some rust on those. Not necessarily a cause for concern as the bolts are intact, just wondering.
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Old 12-24-2012, 05:30 PM   #115
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When I backing up and come to complete stop I hear like metal click noise. Is this due with lower control arm bolts defect. Please advice. Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2012, 02:26 PM   #116
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I have this noise as well. Its actually very loud over some bumps. I just received a ZTU about this in the mail that Toyota will now cover the defect on late 2006 to early 2009 Yaris with up to 7 years and under 100,000 miles. Too bad I am at 117,000 miles.

Also, with the car off, I can push it back and I hear a loud squeaking sound as well! What in the world is this now? Could it be the control arm bolts just moving and producing the same sounds as over bumps? Or this is something completely different?

I also noticed a new noise. Its like a metal on metal vibration when the car gets warm/hot (even now in winter). As long as the car is in Drive and at a stop, it vibrates loud. Same again when first accelerating from a stop or at a low speed. What can this be?

Can someone help me please. I can't figure these out.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:09 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafiro View Post
I have this noise as well. Its actually very loud over some bumps. I just received a ZTU about this in the mail that Toyota will now cover the defect on late 2006 to early 2009 Yaris with up to 7 years and under 100,000 miles. Too bad I am at 117,000 miles.

Also, with the car off, I can push it back and I hear a loud squeaking sound as well! What in the world is this now? Could it be the control arm bolts just moving and producing the same sounds as over bumps? Or this is something completely different?

I also noticed a new noise. Its like a metal on metal vibration when the car gets warm/hot (even now in winter). As long as the car is in Drive and at a stop, it vibrates loud. Same again when first accelerating from a stop or at a low speed. What can this be?

Can someone help me please. I can't figure these out.

The control arm bolts are easy to check. Even if you can't jack it up to take a look, you can at least feel for them. The pictures below shows where the bolts are located and what the bolts runs up through.



Bolts - Location.jpg

With the pushing back sound, if the bolt broke it could definitely be that.

The metallic sound may be from one of the exhaust shields having pulled through the head of the mounting bolt.
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Old 12-28-2012, 03:40 PM   #118
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I wonder if they will reimburse me for having the motor control arm replaced due to this issue with the bolt?
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:05 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
I ran into my old ones today and did a comparison with a set of new ones (I always keep some on hand in case someone comes by that hasn't had them replaced yet).

Attachment 49381

My old ones, which had about 25,000 miles and 4 Winters on them just had light surface rust on the threads and very light surface rust at the base of the head. The interesting thing that I did notice is different markings on the head. In theory, this would mean a different bolt strength class, but according to the service manual, for a bolt with an included washer, either one or two marks means that the bolt is a class 6T bolt.

At least, if nothing more, the changed markings allow one to easily tell if they have new ones (old left, new right):

Attachment 49382

Can I have them? They look OK to me?

Seems like everybody could R&R these bolts themselves, check them out, and replace them if need be.

If a quart of water comes out when you remove it, yeah, thats something that should be on the yearly to do list.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:15 PM   #120
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Can you just unscrew the bolt, take a look at it, and put it back without disturbing anything?

Or do things go out of alignment when you remove the bolt and its trouble getting it back in?

Whats the socket size?

Thanks!
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:18 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by bronsin View Post
Can you just unscrew the bolt, take a look at it, and put it back without disturbing anything?

Or do things go out of alignment when you remove the bolt and its trouble getting it back in?

Whats the socket size?

Thanks!
It is 19mm. You can remove it and reinstall it without issue.
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Old 12-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #122
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Never got the TSB but our Yaris had the LHS bolt fail (bolt head fell off, control arm flopping around) due to this issue. I was out of state on a work trip so it was repaired (at our expense >$1000) at the dealer. We were told that they had awhile invested in the bolt extraction....sissies. Two new bolts and two "un-nessesary" control arms later.......
Water collects in that area, corrosion weakens the bolts, suspension forces overcome bolt strength, control arm flops around, leading to noise and an unsafe condition.
I highly doubt Toyota will reimburse anything unless the failure rate is high enough to require a mandatory recall. "Recall" something Toyota wants to avoid like the plague.

**Then Toyota mails a lame 36,000mile warranty extension out for this issue. Yea, thanks.

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Old 12-28-2012, 06:05 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Never got the TSB but our Yaris had the LHS bolt fail (bolt head fell off, control arm flopping around) due to this issue. I was out of state on a work trip so it was repaired (at our expense) at the dealer. We were told that they had awhile invested in the bolt extraction....sissies. Two new bolts and control arms later.......
Water collects in that area, corrosion weakens the bolts, suspension forces overcome bolt strength, control arm flops around, leading to noise and an unsafe condition.
I highly doubt Toyota will reimburse anything unless the failure rate is high enough to require a mandatory recall. "Recall" something Toyota wants to avoid like the plague.

I would be taking this up with Corporate if I were you. See an attorney first.

On second thought see an attorney that specializes in things like that and see Toyota in court.
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:21 PM   #124
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Can I have them? They look OK to me?

Seems like everybody could R&R these bolts themselves, check them out, and replace them if need be.

If a quart of water comes out when you remove it, yeah, thats something that should be on the yearly to do list.
Before they fail they are very easy to replace and they are not torqued to where to need anything more than a 18" breaker bar or a normal ratchet with a piece of pipe as an extension.

The TSB calls for some seam sealing, but where it shows it, it is all down hill of where those bolts thread into. At only $3 each, I will keep some extras around and will pop them out and take a peek once or twice a year (when switching between Winter and Summer rims is my ideal time to do so).
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:16 PM   #125
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I had a look at the TSB at work today.

They will replace (with updated parts):
Subframe
Ctrl arms
Bolts

As well as they apply seam sealer which appears to try preventing water from filling up the panel that the ctrl arm bolt goes into. I guess they figure that's where the water gets in from. Job pays 5.5hrs WARRANTY time (regular time will be higher).

For most people the best idea will be to remove/inspect, and replace those bolts as required. Salty areas may want to do a yearly check. Next time I have my car on the lift I will see if there is an easy way to make the water drain out by itself. Might just take a drilled hole, or a little cut with a grinder. I completely covered my bolts with axle grease so they shouldn't rust again, but I guess I should actually fix the problem and not just the symptom.

Cheers.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:00 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by CoryM View Post
I had a look at the TSB at work today.

They will replace (with updated parts):
Subframe
Ctrl arms
Bolts

As well as they apply seam sealer which appears to try preventing water from filling up the panel that the ctrl arm bolt goes into. I guess they figure that's where the water gets in from. Job pays 5.5hrs WARRANTY time (regular time will be higher).

For most people the best idea will be to remove/inspect, and replace those bolts as required. Salty areas may want to do a yearly check. Next time I have my car on the lift I will see if there is an easy way to make the water drain out by itself. Might just take a drilled hole, or a little cut with a grinder. I completely covered my bolts with axle grease so they shouldn't rust again, but I guess I should actually fix the problem and not just the symptom.

Cheers.
Cory
As long as people take the precautions you suggest I see no problems. You should suggest this to Toyota and save them a few million...
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