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Old 01-07-2016, 07:55 AM   #1
Zachccccc
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Engine runs fine after ECU reset, poorly shorty after

This all started when I pulled off the highway and noticed the brakes surging. The cause being the engine revving to what can be guessed as 900-1300 RPM. Pulled into my apartment, and stopped the car put it in Park. Noticed that the car revved high still, turned the engine off and restarted it. Upon restart it idled pretty rough, but was idling low.
Went to advanced auto and got them to run codes, threw a
P0301, 302, 303, 304. Misfire on all 4 cylinders ! In addition to a a VVT code that got thrown.
So I opted to replace my plugs in hopes that was the issue. Replaced the plugs, with the battery disconnected to do an ECU reset. Started up and everything seemed to run normal. No rough idle no random revving.
Drove 3.2 miles to get food for my roommate who helped me replace the plugs, stopped the car at the Taco Bell car ran fine no revving or rough idle. Started fine as well drove back to my apartment 3.4 miles.
Ran fine until I got into my parking lot and the revving came back in addition to the rough idle.

So it's not a mechanical issue as it ran fine on the reset ECU, it's a sensor issue making the ECU 'learn' improperly.
What do you all think ? I'm leaning toward MAF sensor but I dunno the VVT code seems to make me think it could be the VVT solenoid ? But would a VVT solenoid effect the learning and make me misfire across all 4?
I'm in a 2001 Echo so the 1nz-fe
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Old 01-07-2016, 08:42 AM   #2
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was the drive belt changed recently? Usually the vvt solenoid never dies unless it is physically damaged (commonly by leveraging against it when changing the drive belt).

That being said I'm not aware of a bad vvt solenoid causing a misfire. It's not likely that it is the coil packs since it's all 4. Not too sure what else it could be other than a bad/dirty maf or bad vacuum leak (that said it would've thrown a lean code if it was a vacuum leak).

Can you check fuel trims using a obd reader?
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Old 01-07-2016, 08:50 AM   #3
Zachccccc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
was the drive belt changed recently? Usually the vvt solenoid never dies unless it is physically damaged (commonly by leveraging against it when changing the drive belt).

That being said I'm not aware of a bad vvt solenoid causing a misfire. It's not likely that it is the coil packs since it's all 4. Not too sure what else it could be other than a bad/dirty maf or bad vacuum leak (that said it would've thrown a lean code if it was a vacuum leak).

Can you check fuel trims using a obd reader?
Nah the drive belt wasn't changed. I think the VVT code was secondary to the actual issue. Maybe the faulty something goofed up the VVT ? But I dunno.

I'm going to try and clean the MAF tonight and see if that doesn't fix the problem. If not the next step will be buying a new MAF

I don't personally own an obd reader, so I can't check unfortunately.
Any other checks for a vacuum leak ?
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Old 01-07-2016, 08:59 AM   #4
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I wouldn't go spending money on a new MAF if you aren't sure it's the problem. They're costly and a waste if that isn't the issue. That cash is better spent on a code reader.

The other way to check for a vacuum leak is to light a stick of incense and with you car running and in an area with no wind (open garage works) move the stick around the intake manifold and vacuum hoses. You are looking if the smoke that comes off of the incense stick is being pulled into any of the intake plumbing.

I find this way a bit more sensitive than spraying carb cleaner on the enigne and hearing for a higher idle.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:18 AM   #5
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I would check your O2 sensor first. On that old of a car, it's possible that it's not reading full range an causing the car to run rich.

Has your millage been degrading at all?
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:29 AM   #6
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^this. I never thought about the O2 sensors but that's definitely a good point. You can use fuel trims (read from a code reader) to see if your running rich
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:34 AM   #7
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How would I go about checking the o2?
Just the fuel trim ?
I have noticed a slight decrease in mileage. But this issue seems to have come out of the blue it wasn't gradual.
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Old 01-07-2016, 09:46 AM   #8
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You can check it with a volt meter back-probing the wire on the computer under the dash. Just stick a sewing needle into the back side of the pin as your probe.

a good O2 will sweep back and forth from roughly .050V-.900V holding the RPMs at about 2000.
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:56 AM   #9
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What pins should I check ? Is there a pinout somewhere ?
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Old 01-07-2016, 11:48 AM   #10
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Actually you there should be a pin on the OBD connector you can use. I think it's a white wire.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:04 PM   #11
Zachccccc
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Alright well when I get back to my apartment I'm going to attempt to read the o2 with my voltmeter. If that is functioning properly test the vacuum using the incense method. If there doesn't seem to be any leaking get some MAF cleaner and see if cleaning fixes the issue.

So am I correct in thinking if it were a vacuum leak the engine would idle poorly even with a reset ECU ? I mean to say, the vacuum leak would occur and affect performance instantly because it is a mechanical fault. Where as my failure seems to be a sensor/ computer one, because the engine ran fine (idle was OK, started quickly, et cetera) for about 6 miles ~15 minutes then started to foul up.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:16 PM   #12
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if this was a vacuum leak issue that was that bad to cause multiple misfires (don't even know if that can cause this) I would expect it to run bad even with a newly re set ecu. That being said moderate vacuum leaks in my experience (one that was about 15-18% and just under triggering a CEL) did not idle rough until the ecu completely reset after about 100km or so.
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Old 01-07-2016, 12:23 PM   #13
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Hmm. Hopefully its not a vacuum leak, those seem like a pain to find/diagnose. But I'm leaning toward MAF or O2 just because this issue seems to 'pop up' and not get gradually worse. I'm guessing the ECU is building a poor map after receiving faulty o2 readings. But then again, this is all guessing on my part. I appreciate your guy's help !
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:39 PM   #14
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Quick question about the o2 sensor, isn't there just one that sits in the exhaust? (pre-cat) and you can see the connector under the shift linkage trim ?

Shown here
Toyota Nation - How to replace o2 sensor

Another question about testing


It says the o2 should be heated to 68F if it's ~40F here how would I achieve 68F on the sensor ?


My bad on the double post, should have edited !
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:55 PM   #15
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The pre cat O2 sensor is an AFR sensor (wideband), the post cat is a typical short band O2 sensor.

I believe Blue vits is referring to the primary AFR sensor, but you may as well check both.
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Old 01-07-2016, 02:14 PM   #16
Zachccccc
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Where is the primary located ?
What I linked is the post cat correct?


*Edit
Nevermind those two questions


I also threw a 420 code, but that's just an emissions thing. That wouldn't cause the mis-fires would it ?
I'm full of questions

Last edited by Zachccccc; 01-07-2016 at 02:57 PM.
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Old 01-07-2016, 02:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
The pre cat O2 sensor is an AFR sensor (wideband), the post cat is a typical short band O2 sensor.

I believe Blue vits is referring to the primary AFR sensor, but you may as well check both.
The primary is NOT an AFR on an Echo. It is an O2 sensor.



And yes the post Cat O2 Sensor will influence the long term fuel trim.

The primary is before that Cat. It is connected in the engine bay. The connector is mounted to the rear engine mount and is a PITA to disconnect. The secondary O2 is the one connected under the shifter.
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Old 01-07-2016, 02:57 PM   #18
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^thanks for the correction, forgot the op had an'01 Echo
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