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Old 12-03-2014, 08:16 AM   #1
acyaris
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris sedan
Join Date: Apr 2013
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2007 Sedan suddenly won't start

Hi,

We have a 2007 Yaris sedan, automatic with 120K miles. The car has always started and run great until yesterday morning. I'll give a little background in case there is a link... I put the car in the garage at the start of the the Thanksgiving holiday with plans on replacing the front exhaust donut gasket, springs and bolts. I jacked both sides of the front up and got under the car on the weekend to inspect the donut gasket area. I saw right away that the bolts NAPA sold me were straight bolts with loose sleeves and the springs and not the shoulder bolts on our Yaris. I also saw that the bolt heads looks rusty and I couldn't find a socket that would fit them. I put a pair of vice grips on one bolt head (before I knew the NAPA bolts were the wrong type) and tried to turn it, it didn't move. I stopped, saw the new bolts were wrong and put the car down. Oh, the bracket that supports that exhaust connection between the pipe and the header looks pretty much rusted through in a few spots, need to order that too... After putting the car down, I checked the oil and then reset the maintenance dash reminder as I hadn't done this at the last oil change. I didn't try to start the car. Just left it until yesterday morning.

I tried to start the car yesterday morning and it immediately didn't sound right. It sputtered a very few times but wouldn't start, the starter was turning. After getting home last night I tried starting it again and it sputtered quite a few times off and on but just wouldn't start. I looked at it in more detail and the starter is turning the engine over as the belt is turning. My son and I cleaned the battery terminals and checked all the fuses under the hood including the AM2 fuse, all good. I checked the air filter and it looked fine with no obstructions (aka mice nests) seen. I read a post here from Scott and checked the voltage at the brown coil wire with the ignition switch in the ON position and got just over 12 volts. We took the plugs out and they looked a bit dirty but not very wet for the amount I was turning the engine over. We could smell some gas on the plugs but they didn't look "wet". After having tried to start it multiple times, I had my sone walk to the back of the car and listen for the fuel pump to turn on when I turned the key on. He didn't hear anything, but maybe the system was pressurized at that point and the pump wouldn't kick on. Oh, I also hooked a code reader up to the car and it showed no codes.

Whatever has happened to the car was like flipping a light switch. It was a great starting and great running car and then all of a sudden it won't start. There was no period of several days or weeks where I started having trouble getting it started or anything like that.

If anyone has any suggestions on where to look or what to try, I'd really appreciate it. My only options now are to have it towed to the dealer ($$) or try and fix it myself. I do have another vehicle to drive to work so I have the benefit of a little extra time to get it fixed.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Jim
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:36 PM   #2
jcboy
 
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I'd start with a good spare battery. That's the easiest, let alone the cheapest (it should be free) or if you don't have any, have it charged to full capacity.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:50 PM   #3
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The fuel pump runs all the time with the ignition switch on. The Yaris does not shut it off at all, so I would definitely check that out further.
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Old 12-03-2014, 06:52 PM   #4
acyaris
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris sedan
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How to check out fuel pump

Hi Scott,

Do you have any suggestions on how to check out the fuel pump?

Thanks,

Jim
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Old 12-03-2014, 06:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acyaris View Post
Hi Scott,

Do you have any suggestions on how to check out the fuel pump?

Thanks,

Jim
Listen for it to be running with the key on. If you do not hear it, there is a thread on here where I detail how to measure the voltage feed to it at the under dash fuse panel to see if the C/OPN relay is bad within the body ECU.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:31 PM   #6
acyaris
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris sedan
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Fuel pump noise

Scott,

I just had my two boys listen in a quiet garage as I turned the key to on and neither of them heard any noise originating from the fuel tank area. I assume the fuel pump would have been loud enough for them to hear?
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acyaris View Post
Scott,

I just had my two boys listen in a quiet garage as I turned the key to on and neither of them heard any noise originating from the fuel tank area. I assume the fuel pump would have been loud enough for them to hear?
I just tried it with mine to refresh my memory. It is not loud, but it is definitely a discernible fairly high pitched sound.
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Old 12-03-2014, 08:54 PM   #8
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Here's the thread on the relay measurements:

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/sho...hlight=c%2Fopn
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:02 PM   #9
acyaris
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris sedan
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Is there a simple way to determine if the fuel pump is pumping or not? Someone at work suggested I rent a fuel pressure gauge and connect it to a test port on the car. I'm not sure the Yaris has a test port on the fuel line. My friend said it's similar to the fill or bleed fitting on an A/C system. If it has one, Autozone lends out the meter for free but with a refundable $150 security deposit. I also thought I read somewhere that the Yaris reads the fuel pressure and if it wasn't right that there would be an error code or some other kind of indication? I just hate to spend a lot of time electrially troubleshooting the fuel pump if it may be working. In the old days you could just disconnect a fuel hose and put it in a pail to see if the fuel pump was pumping...

Jim
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:14 PM   #10
ex-x-fire
 
Drives: 2010 yaris 3 door hatch
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Thump the gas tank with your fist while someone is cranking, sometimes that makes the pump work again. The pump is accessible though the floor board.
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Old 12-03-2014, 09:35 PM   #11
CTScott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acyaris View Post
Is there a simple way to determine if the fuel pump is pumping or not? Someone at work suggested I rent a fuel pressure gauge and connect it to a test port on the car. I'm not sure the Yaris has a test port on the fuel line. My friend said it's similar to the fill or bleed fitting on an A/C system. If it has one, Autozone lends out the meter for free but with a refundable $150 security deposit. I also thought I read somewhere that the Yaris reads the fuel pressure and if it wasn't right that there would be an error code or some other kind of indication? I just hate to spend a lot of time electrially troubleshooting the fuel pump if it may be working. In the old days you could just disconnect a fuel hose and put it in a pail to see if the fuel pump was pumping...

Jim
The Yaris does not have an easy place to connect a fuel pressure gauge to. You could just disconnect the quick connect connection to the fuel rail and see if fuel comes out with pressure (do this with the ignition off, so it just releases pressure and does not continue to pump).

The tank is plastic and the pump is suspended in a plastic assembly, so the thump method mentioned above would not have an effect.
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Old 12-08-2014, 08:41 AM   #12
acyaris
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris sedan
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I've retested the spark at each coil and they are all strong. I've tested the EFI relay and it is actuating though the resistance measurement is around 300 ohms instead of 100. I haven't tested the c/opn relay yet. We did take the back seat out and remove the fuel tank access panel. I removed the electrical connector to the fuel pump and it has 4 contacts/pins in the connector. I've measured all combinations of voltages between any 2 of the 4 pins and there is 12V between the same two pins with the ignition off or on but no voltage at all between the other pins. I looked for information on this connector in the fuel section of the service manual but didn't find anything. I thought this would be an easy way to see if the fuel pump was getting voltage. It seems that when the ignition switch is on I should see voltage at some of the other pins... Not sure why there is 12V back there with the ignition switch off.

I'll do the test on the c/opn relay tonight.

Jim
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Old 12-08-2014, 09:37 AM   #13
shepd
 
Drives: 2007 Yaris 5 door RS
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I have no idea if the Yaris fuel pump is like this, but some electronics in cars work by switching the ground on and off. Measuring for voltage could show voltage present even with the car off if the fuel pump circuit is wired this way.
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