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Old 05-26-2010, 11:33 AM   #1
tendomentis
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Permanently remove passenger seat?

Please excuse me if this has been already answered. I DID search the forum for this answer first.

Is there a way to safely remove the passenger front seat in an '09 Yaris Sedan S? I know there is an issue with the seat belt and air bag sensors, but I don't know if can we worked around or not.
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:49 AM   #2
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If you remove the passenger seat completely, you can do either of two things to allow the SRS system to remain happy, and hence be able to pop the driver's side airbag (and curtain airbags if so equipped):

1. Leave everything connected: Remove the passenger seat, disassemble it to remove the 4 passenger occupancy sensors (which connect the main part of the seat to the frame) and the wiring between them and the passenger occupancy ECU (the little black box mounted the bottom of the passenger seat). You would then tuck all of that someplace (under the center console for example). You would also need to leave the passenger seatbelt latch internals connected (but, they too can be tucked under the console).

2. Leave just the passenger occupancy ECU, and use my Passenger Occupancy Sensor Bypass module. To avoid disassembling the seat, and to save a bit of space/weight, you can replace the four sensors and their cabling with my module. It is intended to allow the passenger airbag to still be used, when the passenger seat is replaced, but basically it takes the place of the sensors and gives you a switch that tells it to arm or disarm the passenger airbag.
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Old 08-29-2014, 11:13 PM   #3
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Jeez, Scott, you cover most everything.

I just pulled my passenger seat in preparation for installing two plush older Camry seats I got at the boneyard. I disconnected two plugs underneath and was mildly surprised to see the typical black box, a sure sign of a microprocessor. After vacuuming out all the detritus, I drove it and noted the airbag icon on the instrument cluster was on and some lites on the passenger airbag/seatbelt display on that side of the dash.

The Camry seats have seat belt switches or I can retrofit from the Yaris seats. I will probably do this since the M/F on the different seat belt latches are different size and not compatible. Hoping this is one of the connectors.

The other connector is probably for the black box seat pressure sensor. The one that requires me to belt in my 12 packs. I'm intrigued by your POS bypass module and would like to get the info on it If you would be so kind ( haven't searched yet).

Bottom line- I'm installing these two seats and would like the passenger airbag system to enable when the seat belt is latched and don't really care if there's weight on the seat. Is this redundant or am I missing something?
(at the howstuffworks website, there's a good explanation on this system which classifies the passenger by size for a dual stage airbag deployment)

I haven't looked yet, but if there's a black box under the driver's seat, I'll be shocked for obvious reasons. I assume all I'll have to do there is rig the seat belt switch like the passenger side to enable the air bag?

Thanks in advance. I'm really impressed by your input all over this website.

Last edited by TerribleTim; 08-30-2014 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 08-30-2014, 12:05 AM   #4
TerribleTim
 
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Scott-

Found it-

http://shop.microimageonline.com/sea...keywords=ocsbm

Tnx
Says its backordered
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:15 AM   #5
TerribleTim
 
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Scott
Found the link to your bypass module. Tnx. Looks good, but site says they're out of stock and backordered. Did more research on this site and didn't realize that passenger blk box was on the bus. With a uprocesser, I should have known.

Took another look at my seats. The seat belt latch switch is just 2 wire so it should go on the Camry seat easily. The center bolts are even the same size. Do you know offhand if the latch switch is magnetic or contact? Just curious.

On the other hand, there looks like four load cells, one in each corner of the seat frame with a 3 wire connector on each going to the blk box on the passenger seat. This seems like major overkill. Keeping Japanese electrical engineers employed. Thought maybe it was to modulate the intensity of the airbag pop, but without one on the driver side, this doesn't make sense. It would be better to modulate this based on the g forces of the crash anyway which is a different sensor. Any thoughts on the rationale behind this very complex weight sensor??

Anyway, the four sensors look like a major PITA to remove. I just want to fool the system into thinking the seat is always loaded, so the airbag is enabled whenever the seat belt is latched (like the driver side). On the chance that these three wire sensors are analog, is there a way to jump or shunt them at the harness plug to "keep the SRS happy"??
That way I could just leave the blk box and four "rigged" plugs under the new seat.

Trying to find wiring diagram for the seat, specifically the blk box, but no luck.
TT
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerribleTim View Post
Scott
Found the link to your bypass module. Tnx. Looks good, but site says they're out of stock and backordered. Did more research on this site and didn't realize that passenger blk box was on the bus. With a uprocesser, I should have known.

Took another look at my seats. The seat belt latch switch is just 2 wire so it should go on the Camry seat easily. The center bolts are even the same size. Do you know offhand if the latch switch is magnetic or contact? Just curious.

On the other hand, there looks like four load cells, one in each corner of the seat frame with a 3 wire connector on each going to the blk box on the passenger seat. This seems like major overkill. Keeping Japanese electrical engineers employed. Thought maybe it was to modulate the intensity of the airbag pop, but without one on the driver side, this doesn't make sense. It would be better to modulate this based on the g forces of the crash anyway which is a different sensor. Any thoughts on the rationale behind this very complex weight sensor??

Anyway, the four sensors look like a major PITA to remove. I just want to fool the system into thinking the seat is always loaded, so the airbag is enabled whenever the seat belt is latched (like the driver side). On the chance that these three wire sensors are analog, is there a way to jump or shunt them at the harness plug to "keep the SRS happy"??
That way I could just leave the blk box and four "rigged" plugs under the new seat.

Trying to find wiring diagram for the seat, specifically the blk box, but no luck.
TT

I can sell you one of the bypass modules directly if you want.

For the buckle latch there is a hall effect sensor in there with some active electronics. Kind of overkill, but a way for them to make it hard for people to bypass it. The Camry buckle may be the same depending on the vintage of it. If not, my module can handle bypassing the buckle switch as well.

The weight sensors are load cells, but they are not just simple resistive devices. They each have a microcontroller on them that speaks over the LIN bus between the sensors and the Passenger Occupancy ECU. My module emulates them and speaks the the ECU over the LIN bus.
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Old 08-30-2014, 11:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
2. Leave just the passenger occupancy ECU, and use my Passenger Occupancy Sensor Bypass module. To avoid disassembling the seat, and to save a bit of space/weight, you can replace the four sensors and their cabling with my module. It is intended to allow the passenger airbag to still be used, when the passenger seat is replaced, but basically it takes the place of the sensors and gives you a switch that tells it to arm or disarm the passenger airbag.
^^^^^This wonderful device you invented is what I was so inarticulately trying to refer to in another thread. Would this module work in either a 1st Gen xB or a 2nd Gen Prius ?
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:30 AM   #8
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^^^^^This wonderful device you invented is what I was so inarticulately trying to refer to in another thread. Would this module work in either a 1st Gen xB or a 2nd Gen Prius ?
Prius - Yes. XB not yet (the XB uses a very different setup and I haven't had my hands on one yet to develop the solution for it).
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:17 AM   #9
nookandcrannycar
 
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Prius - Yes.


Quote:
XB not yet (the XB uses a very different setup and I haven't had my hands on one yet to develop the solution for it).
When you do, definitely let us know...

...and thank you for this information .
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:00 PM   #10
JustPassinThru
 
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Originally Posted by TerribleTim View Post
On the chance that these three wire sensors are analog, is there a way to jump or shunt them at the harness plug to "keep the SRS happy"??
That way I could just leave the blk box and four "rigged" plugs under the new seat.

Trying to find wiring diagram for the seat, specifically the blk box, but no luck.
TT
On the basis of what CTS and others have told me privately...NO.

The seat sensors are logic units...microprocessors. Jumping them will probably cook something.

FWIW...I've had the passenger seat out twice, for traveling and a big move. It shuts down the SRS airbag system and sends the passenger-belt warning flashing, but it doesn't hurt anything else. And it all goes away as soon as you plug the seat setup back in.

So...if you're willing to risk traveling with only your harness...just pull it out. If that flashing seat-belt light bothers you, do what I did: use a small Post-It note, or cut out a small piece, to glue on the face over that warning light.

I traveled Wisconsin to Florida and back, and then Wisconsin to Montana and back and again...all those miles disconnected. Once the seat was reinstalled, everything was fine.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by JustPassinThru View Post
On the basis of what CTS and others have told me privately...NO.

The seat sensors are logic units...microprocessors. Jumping them will probably cook something.

FWIW...I've had the passenger seat out twice, for traveling and a big move. It shuts down the SRS airbag system and sends the passenger-belt warning flashing, but it doesn't hurt anything else. And it all goes away as soon as you plug the seat setup back in.

So...if you're willing to risk traveling with only your harness...just pull it out. If that flashing seat-belt light bothers you, do what I did: use a small Post-It note, or cut out a small piece, to glue on the face over that warning light.

I traveled Wisconsin to Florida and back, and then Wisconsin to Montana and back and again...all those miles disconnected. Once the seat was reinstalled, everything was fine.

If any portion of the SRS system is in an error state the airbags will not deploy in a crash, so by driving with the passenger occupancy system being in an error state you have the entire SRS system in fault.
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:08 AM   #12
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Right. I know this and tried to say that to the previous poster.

It's a risk, sure - but up until a decade ago, my cars didn't HAVE airbags. In fact my Jeep didn't even have a padded steering hub.

I lived.

I'm not saying he should do this without consideration; but the odds of a crash at any given time are generally low; and the safety harness should be enough in 75 percent or so of crashes.
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Old 12-01-2017, 03:16 PM   #13
AlaxyGalaxy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTScott View Post
1. Leave everything connected: Remove the passenger seat, disassemble it to remove the 4 passenger occupancy sensors (which connect the main part of the seat to the frame) and the wiring between them and the passenger occupancy ECU (the little black box mounted the bottom of the passenger seat). You would then tuck all of that someplace (under the center console for example). You would also need to leave the passenger seatbelt latch internals connected (but, they too can be tucked under the console).
Hello, I realize this thread is 7 years old and hasn't seen any activity in over 3 years, but I have some questions:

I want to remove the pax seat in my 2004 Echo hatch to make a 600km roadtrip on Monday to pick up some parts, and I'd rather have the airbags working for the duration.

I'm thinking of going to the scrapyard and picking up either a seat (35$) and remove the back or just rip out the sensor (9$).

Are you aware if the sensors for Echos are compatible throughout all years? I remember the bit that goes inside the seat looking rather flimsy. How durable are these thing? I was thinking of leaving the lot dangling down on the floor under my heavy engine parts and plastic bins.
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