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09-04-2015, 08:46 PM | #1 |
Ethanol?
Have you ever run ethanol in your car? Someone told me that a lot of cars have this capability out of the box without tuning and not for a performance aplication
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09-04-2015, 09:09 PM | #2 |
Drives: 2007 Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: motown
Posts: 339
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I would be careful. Ethanol may cause deposits too break away in your
fuel system. Also your mileage will decrease. I wouldn't do it if there is another choice. |
09-04-2015, 09:29 PM | #3 | |
Drives: '15 Yaris SE 5MT Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Arizona (USA)
Posts: 1,058
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09-04-2015, 09:32 PM | #4 | |
It's the illusion you see
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Aero Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brossard, QC
Posts: 3,888
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Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk |
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09-04-2015, 10:45 PM | #5 |
It's my understanding that if the car has a yellow gas cap that it can run ethanol. My car doesn't have one but has anyone tried it?
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09-04-2015, 11:28 PM | #6 | |
It's the illusion you see
Drives: 07 Yaris Sedan Aero Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brossard, QC
Posts: 3,888
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Otherwise, all the metals are going to rust, such as the gas lines.. At least, that's what I read a while back Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk |
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09-05-2015, 05:01 PM | #7 |
That's true I agree. Some people think that the ethanol that is in gas will do the same
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09-05-2015, 07:27 PM | #8 | |
Drives: 2009 Base Hatch 2 Dr Auto Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 4,790
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Ethanol is a political ploy to make money for farmers who should be selling corn for people to eat NOT to burn in our cars! Now that oil is $40 a barrel theres no excuse to put ethanol in gas. Its not good for our cars. Ethanol needs to DIE!
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Synthetic Oil: Its All In Your Head |
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09-06-2015, 08:30 AM | #9 |
Drives: 2007 Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: motown
Posts: 339
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Rust is oxidation for which you need air. There should be no air in your fuel system beyond the tank. Your gas line should be fine
The problems with ethanol was that it would eat early fiberglass and plastic fuel tanks. It would cause a jelly like substance that would plugged lines or even get into the motors of bikes and boats. The boating industry was hit very hard in the 70's because of this. As Bronsin pointed out the government subsidy needed a new market for there corn. Gas with ethanol is a bad idea, there are no benefits to it, unless you want a hotter malatove cocktail. |
09-06-2015, 11:23 AM | #10 |
Drives: 2007 Yaris 5 door RS Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 178
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Ethanol has less energy per litre than gasoline. The only way to find it useful will be to do major performance tuning so your engine can take advantage of ethanol having a higher octane number. If you can get the engine to eat a *lot* of ethanol, and have the timing significantly adjusted, and even better, change the compression of the engine, it'll have better performance, hp-wise. It will have TERRIBLE gas mileage, though. REALLY terrible. Don't forget that you'll have to rebuild the fuel system to keep ethanol from rotting out anything that isn't steel (plastics, rubbers, etc)!
Pure 87 octane Gasoline (the gold standard) -- 124 kBTU Pure ethanol -- 84 kBTU You need 32% more E100 to get the same energy as Gasoline You need 27% more E85 to get the same energy as Gasoline You need 5% more E15 to get the same energy as Gasoline Basically, ethanol as fuel is, today, a big scam. You have to buy more gas to go the same distance, and there's no break on the price despite this. The only time you might care about it is during the zombie apocalypse, but it's too hard to generate. You'd be better off with a wood gasifier then. :P The only way I would buy ethanol is if it were at least 5% cheaper (E15), and even then, I value my car's HP over the MPG more than that. For E85 the discount would need to be at least 27%, and my car would have to be already converted to support it (LOL right). Before anyone comments, yes, I'm aware that E100 can only exist in an abnormal environment (vacuum, pure dry nitrogen, etc, etc) because it will suck water out of the air until it is E96. :P |
09-06-2015, 03:30 PM | #11 |
So obviously our cars can't run ethanol. Also thanks for sharing such valuable and interesting information about ethanol. I know there are a lot of people who love it and a lot of people who hate it. Yes gas is cheap right now which is GREAT! Especially for us guys paying $30 a tank (depending where you live) making switching to ethanol not feasible for most everybody
So I'd like to take this conversation a bit farther. The reason I posted this was because I saw one of those controversial documentaries talking about ethanol methanol electricity lpg cng and maybe a few other fuel sources to try to compete with gasoline on the consumer market. Assuming it was a perfect world and you already had a vehicle that could use any of these fuel sources which do you think is the best source of energy to power commuter cars? |
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09-06-2015, 06:00 PM | #12 | |
Drives: 2009 Base Hatch 2 Dr Auto Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: nj
Posts: 4,790
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Toyota thinks its electricity from fuel cells. Any way you slice it your car of the future is going to cost like $100,000 what with safety features and autonomous driving these nice people would like to stick up our ass. I think its riding a bicycle like the Chinese used to do.
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09-06-2015, 07:52 PM | #13 | |
Drives: 2('14+'07)MT 3d ,wHandCrWndws! Join Date: May 2009
Location: S.MontgomeryCnty,TX(HoustonMSA) '07=BayouBlue=300,125miles=OrigOwnr '14=ClassicSilvr=29,059miles
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I seem to remember an article about the Toyota fuel cell car within the last month or so in one of the major car magazines. The BASE price (U.S.) was 58k USD and change.
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09-07-2015, 01:44 PM | #14 |
Tesla is supposedly making a 35k electric car in the next few years which I think is GREAT. If solar panels can be recycled I think there might be something to this powering cars with the sun. Maybe even without batteries some day.
You have a point with the safety crap too but it does get cheaper. For example our little cars mine was 16k new and came with 6 air bags abs crumple zones rollover protection stability control and traction control It seems that the big advancement on the showroom floors right now is (still) turbocharging. The new eco boost trucks get good mileage from my understanding. And the Eco boost mustang gets better mileage than the GT and has more power with a tune. Turbos are awesome |
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09-07-2015, 11:24 PM | #15 |
Drives: 2007 Yaris 5 door RS Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 178
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If you want to convert for environmental reasons (it isn't likely you'd do it to save money) I recommend an LPG or CNG conversion, whichever is more available in your area. You will usually save money on the fuel (Even after factoring the lower BTU level of it) AND it is cleaner burning than both ethanol and gasoline (and diesel, not that that is a conversion choice, more a new engine choice). Many factories have LP forklifts running indoors all day (Don't try this with your car, though!).
Electric power will be the eventual winner, however, a faster charging format OR battery swap system needs to exist to make it practical. A long distance driver is not going to want to spend money on eating dinner or having a LONG coffee break every 3-4 hours (Well, I don't want to). However, unless the world invests heavily in nuclear energy, you will not save anything. The grid is already heavily loaded in most areas, and electric cars drawing 20 kW all night is just going to kill off time-of-use pricing, which will then kill off the interest of charging anytime except "now". Solar power at home will need to be WAY more efficient, or homes far larger (and people will need to stop being interested in condos) if anyone really believes solar cars are going to be reasonable. By solar cars I mean electric cars which are charged on solar power exclusively. Let's not forget that many areas don't even get enough solar power for 1/2 of the year to be reasonably useful without a massive FIELD of solar panels per car. What I believe will really end up existing is a merging of self-driving vehicles and electric cars. Basically a mini-bus that roams around picking up passengers (who have already informed the system of their exact destination via phone, like with uber). The backend will be smart enough to have the bus pick up people along the route it is already headed on and choose passengers that will be dropped off somewhere that it's already going, thus dramatically increasing efficiency and making customers happy (short, efficient trip times). This will likely replace taxis, city buses, and probably subways/street cars, and will be far cheaper. Probably will kill off all public transport and make it private (which will bring it the respect it needs to get more customers). Overall, fewer cars will be sold, but I'm OK with that. Cities like mine that are too stupid to realize that what I'm talking about is going to happen within our lifetimes are investing heavily into public transit infrastructure that will be obsoleted in a few decades. Oh well. I guess it's just other people's money so it's OK, right? :( The dumbest argument that I hear about electric cars is that it will kill off the need for mechanics. It has to be the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. The only thing that will likely require less servicing is the engine + exhaust, and of course there's no transmission. I have *never*, in 15 years of ownership, required serious engine service (just lube jobs, and mechanics don't do those, high school lube jockeys do them). And I have grenaded one transmission in a shitbox that went straight to the junkyard because it wasn't worth fixing. Everything else has been suspension related, steering related, electrical, body, brakes, tires, drivetrain, alignment, etc, related. That's PLENTY of work for 90% of mechanics to keep their jobs. And most mechanics would like to stop having to pull engines out of cars, or change clutches, or do transmission service. Those jobs can suck even if they do pay well enough. The rest are sorta gravy work. :) |
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