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Old 03-23-2009, 09:34 AM   #1
LtNoogie
 
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Another S/C'd member worried about his AFR

I am posting the dyno printout for another Blitz S/C'd forum member who is worried about his AFR. His dyno technician would not perform a third pull because he did not want to be responsible for damaging this member's engine due to the lean readings.

Without access to a ScanGauge to indicate ignition timing, I do not know if he is facing a problem or not. He is not experiencing any pre-ignition due to the use of octane booster but that gets to be an expensive practice.

Largeorangefont, he has specifically asked for you to weigh in on this. I can post the HP curve if that would be helpful.

Thanks.

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Last edited by LtNoogie; 03-23-2009 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:38 AM   #2
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on top of being unsafe in some cases, you are losing a ton of power. If he has some money to throw around, i heard the SMT8 by perfect power might be a viable solution
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:56 AM   #3
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Anybody tried a Megasquirt on a Yaris? If the ECU is rejecting the piggybacks maybe it's time to go standalone.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearda View Post
Anybody tried a Megasquirt on a Yaris? If the ECU is rejecting the piggybacks maybe it's time to go standalone.
If you have the knowledge or time to wire it into your harness then it might be a viable solution, but I'm getting really tired of thinking Megasquirt is some kind of easy plug and play solution; it's not. I have a friend who put it in his Escort and it was a lot of work, the car runs fine now but it took a lot of time.

Octane boost wouldn't have that much effect on the A/F ratio unless he was running C-10 or better. Did they try to advance or retard the timing at all before he refused to run the car anymore?
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:15 AM   #5
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lol yeah, everyone thinks megasquirt is a god send. It is very crude, but it works well if you know how to use it. On a newer car like this i can see it being a bitch to work with. Money better invested elsewhere.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:16 AM   #6
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lol yeah, everyone thinks megasquirt is a god send. It is very crude, but it works well if you know how to use it. On a newer car like this i can see it being a bitch to work with. Money better invested elsewhere.
Agreed 110%
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Old 03-23-2009, 12:59 PM   #7
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^^^ ???


As ANY other stand alone and even piggy back out there... a Megasquirt would have to be hardwired. That is a pain yes... but is not any different from the other stand alones out there.

With any stand alone ECU you NEED to know what you are doing if you want to doit right.

I'm not saying that the Megasquirt would work or not in a Yaris... but ease of installation should not be factor...

There are other modern cars running just fine with Megasquirt.


There is one reason we have no one (other than Garm's in process project) running a standalone... and that is the cost of it. And basically that is the advantage of the Megasquirt... it's low cost.


So I will have to disagree and say that until some gives a valid reason (different from hardwire is a pain) why the Megasquirt would not work on Yaris... it should remain on the table as one good option.


Since basically 90% of the forced induction Yaris won't be pushing the limits... fuel and timing control on a basic way is the only thing they need.

Is there anyone with actual knowledge on Megasquirt that wants to chime in?
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
While there are many cars where MegaSquirt can completely replace the stock ECU, on some cars you'll need to leave the stock ECU in place. There's several reasons why you might want to do this. On some installations, you might want to have the MegaSquirt control just the fuel and would rather not deal with having to tune the ignition. Or you may have an ECU that controls the automatic transmission, has the voltage regulator for the alternator inside it, controls a drive by wire throttle, or has other features that aren't easy to control with MegaSquirt. On a car like that, the solution is what's called a parallel installation.
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti...n_parallel.htm
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:27 PM   #9
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I'm not saying a MegaSquirt or any other standalone would be easy, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of needing something effective. If you can't cooperate with the stock ECU take it out of the picture for fuel delivery.

Yeah, installing it would be a cast-iron bitch. The upside is that once you did get it installed and tuned right it would work. And continue to work, despite whatever psychotic episode the ECU decided to throw.
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Old 03-23-2009, 01:27 PM   #10
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Yeap, on a car like the Yaris you will want to leave the OE ECU on the car if you want to keep all the standard features.

Ideally some one would want to take control only over the fuel and timing and use a MAP sensor to tune from... and let all other functions to be handle by the OE ecu.

That would be the easiest way to do it.

First time is the hardest... and the most expensive..

But if someone with the knowledge can figure a way to make it work... and document the process...

Then it will be a breeze for the people coming behind...


So, who wants to be the pioneer!!!!
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:25 PM   #11
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I forwarded the dyno sheet to Blitz, that's the best I can do to be helpful.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:09 PM   #12
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Hey let's solve my problem! What the fart is wrong here!? I only got a 20whp gain with a headerback 2.25" exhaust setup. Noogie got 27whp gain with only an axleback and header as his exhaust upgrades. I want to shoot myself. Oh yah, and my torque got worst! lol. I am in a deep depression as of now.

Here are my HP dyno charts from the resent run. Below will be the old sheet.

(Like stated in first post #1, My dyno guy said I'd probably make more HP in higher RPMs, but he did not want to do any harm to my engine, so he didn't.)

So I was reading in noogie's "How to cure a lean condition thread" and I am kinda confused...

Largeorange front was saying that noogie's readings are OK, if the blitz kit has retard timing? So if that is the case, I would not be running lean either?



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Old 03-23-2009, 10:14 PM   #13
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See how inaccurate the butt dyno was? My 27 HP gain is before I tune the car some more. It's now a matter of dimishing returns. How much more money do I want to sink into this for marginal gains. Give me another 30 HP and I may dump a few more bills into it. I just don't want to be the first Blitz owner to blow up his engine.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:21 PM   #14
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Yah, but I got problems. I only got a 20whp gain with a manual! I should have had a bigger gain than you. If I could get an additional 30 HP gain from this kit, I am all for it. But I am not done with my current problem. I still feel "robbed" of HP that I should have gotten. All that money, all that time, and for 20whp.........

Is my lean condition worst than yours Noogie?
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:29 PM   #15
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My AFR was actually worse than yours. Sorry for the messed up formatting of the tabular data. My RPMs are the second column. AFR the last column.

AFTER SUPERCHARGER
Code:
          s         RPM x1000 hp        ft-lbs    Air/Fuel
          0.24      4.10      N/A       N/A       14.64     
          0.58      4.20      88.67     110.88    14.91     
          0.97      4.30      93.31     113.97    14.59     
          1.40      4.40      93.61     111.73    13.77     
          1.79      4.50      96.69     112.85    13.45     
          2.19      4.60      98.06     111.96    13.64     
          2.60      4.70      100.11    111.87    13.79     
          3.00      4.80      100.07    109.49    13.80     
          3.42      4.90      101.35    108.64    13.85     
          3.80      5.00      104.52    109.79    13.90     
          4.23      5.10      103.96    107.06    13.96     
          4.64      5.20      103.46    104.49    14.13     
          5.07      5.30      104.02    103.08    14.17     
          5.50      5.40      104.64    101.77    14.14     
          5.94      5.50      105.85    101.08    14.12     
          6.39      5.60      106.11    99.52     14.28     
          6.84      5.70      109.51    100.90    14.38     
          7.29      5.80      111.59    101.05    14.37     
          7.72      5.90      115.35    102.68    14.27     
          8.17      6.00      116.62    102.09    14.18     
          8.64      6.10      116.29    100.12    14.16     
          9.10      6.20      116.53    98.71     14.07     
          9.60      6.30      114.51    95.47     14.01     
          10.12     6.40      112.97    92.71     13.87     
          10.63     6.50      114.46    92.49     13.79
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Last edited by eTiMaGo; 03-24-2009 at 03:04 AM. Reason: Use CODE tags to keep tabs ;)
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:44 PM   #16
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Yah I see that at your 6200 RPMs you were at 14.07. At 6,200 RPMs I was at 13.59. You were leaner than me.

I see that you took it to 6500 RPMs. That was my intended plan, until my dyno guy said no ways. Yours actually wasn't as lean when you took it past 6300.

So did you come to the conclusion that you have retard timing and even though these numbers mean you are running lean, you really aren't?

ps: I am going to dyno on a dynojet and taking it to 6500 RPMs once I figure everything out.
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:04 PM   #17
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I may be an idiot, but aren't these numbers showing that you guys are running rich?

14.7:1 is perfect.....then wouldn't anything less be rich of peak?


Would anything over 14.7:1 be lean (like 15:1 etc.)?
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Old 03-23-2009, 11:38 PM   #18
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Your logic is right... the higher the number the leanest,

However your point of reference is wrong... 14,7:1 would be the perfect number at idle or when crusing, not under boost.

Under boos you need to run much richer than that to be on the safe side...

Ideally these guys should be around 12:1 under boost... that is why they say a 13.5 or a 14 is dangerously lean...
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