Upgrade to ABS? Possible? Practical?

[sbergman27]

I just had an "Oh my god I'm gonna die!" experience when sheet ice appeared out of nowhere on a otherwise completely dry road with a 4% downhill grade on a mountain pass where the right shoulder was low. (About 100ft low.)

I'm wondering if it is at all thinkable to retrofit my 2008 sedan with ABS. I like the car, but it sure would be nice to have ABS.

-Steve

[Loren]

Unless you happen to own a salvage yard, or an appropriate parts car and have LOTS of time on your hands and have lots of experience as a mechanic, you'd be far better off selling your non-ABS car and buying one with ABS.

At a minimum, you're looking at four wheel sensors, an ABS pump and hydraulic lines to plumb it into the system, ABS control module, and a significant wiring harness to hook it all up. Possibly more than that. Could be a different master cylinder, and most likely a different proportioning valve.

[Loren]

Oh yeah... it's also likely that the non-ABS hubs/axles don't have the trigger wheels built in for the wheel speed sensors. So, you might have to change parts there, too.

It's not an easy job. I've only heard of one person doing an ABS install ever (on a Miata), and even he said he'd not recommend doing it and wouldn't do it again.

[MadMax]

ABS will not save you in every situation, and I am not sure it would have helped in yours. I guess you lost control due to the ice, and what would have helped more would have been a traction control system; and even then it may not have done much. My last car had both, and over in Europe I still had several instances where the car still spun out on ice (luckily, never to the point of being dangerous; but scary nonetheless!).

Neither of my two primary vehicles (my Yaris and my Jeep) have ABS. Now, I live in a dry southern climate where ice isn't a big concern; but I've learned that driving skill and exercising proper caution when driving will eliminate 95% of situations where most people use it. In other words, while it's great to have a parachute, it's still better to know how to fly the plane!

Cheers! M2

[127.0.0.1]

yesh

it is a big job, best done when the car is being built

find a wrecked yaris, buy it, and you can maybe start a conversion with minimal $$$$

[sbergman27]

Thanks for the responses. The situation is about what I figured. I just thought I'd ask.

Traction control would be nice. But ABS is what I needed this morning. I was driving along on bone dry road, east of Montrose, CO on highway 50, on probably about a 3% - 4% downhill grade, rounded a bend... and suddenly, out of nowhere, was a clear line of snow packed so tightly it might as well have been solid ice. I immediately thought "Oh shit!" and started pulsing the brakes, and trying to stay as far as possible from the cliff edge. I finally got it stopped and just sat there a while stunned... before realizing that I was so shaken up by it that I didn't notice that I was sitting right in front of another bend in the road, and was in the opposing traffic lane. Not that I expected anyone to come flying up this sheet-of-ice hill at high speed. But I quickly maneuvered over to the shoulder.

I've done a *lot* of mountain driving without ABS. But not so much during the winter and early spring, and so far north. I think I'll stay further south for another month or so.

-Steve

[10DG22]

How can you tell if your Yaris came with ABS?

[severous01]

when u start the car you'll get an ABS light. or you can look under the fuse cover and find an abs fuse and relay...or you have a huge control module right next to the booster/master cylinder...with a ton of brake lines in the area.

or, you can look on the axle next time you got the wheel off and look for a sensor in the control arm, and a reluctor ring on the axle itself, near the rotor/bearing area.

[Loren]

Easiest way is what Severous said first. Turn on the ignition and look for an ABS light. If it comes on, you have ABS. If it comes on, then goes out, it passed its self test.

All the other checks he mentioned will tell you that you have the ABS hardware, but won't tell you that it's working.

If you REALLY want to know if you have ABS and know what it feels like when it engages (and anyone who has ABS should do this), find an empty stretch of road, accelerate to 35 mph and hit the brakes as hard as you can. If you don't have ABS, your tires will lock up immediately, and you should let off to avoid flat-spotting your tires. If you do have ABS, you'll feel an odd pulsation in the brake pedal, a lot of weird noise, and probably some chirping from the tires.

[Yariz]

Or you could just learn to brake. If you brake in short pumps during a problem it is very similar to ABS, and can help. Its just that most people don't operate well in an emergency. So you will have to know for yourself if you can handle that.

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by Yariz

Or you could just learn to brake.

I know very well how to brake. Please teach me how to modulate the pedal in such a way as to control all four brakes independently and simultaneously, adjusting the braking force for each wheel at least, say, 3 times per second. I've just never quite gotten the hang of that trick. If I'd panicked and just slammed on the brakes I well might not be here to post this now.

[Yariz]

Originally Posted by sbergman27

I know very well how to brake. Please teach me how to modulate the pedal in such a way as to control all four brakes independently and simultaneously, adjusting the braking force for each wheel at least, say, 3 times per second. I've just never quite gotten the hang of that trick. If I'd panicked and just slammed on the brakes I well might not be here to post this now.

hmm wow you told me... just practice man you will get it.

I have faith.

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by Yariz

hmm wow you told me... just practice man you will get it.

How about a hint? Does pressure on different parts of the brake pedal control different wheel cylinders? Should I start a program of toe exercises, similar to finger strength exercises which piano teachers have their students do? I need some help here. ;-)

The reason I was slightly annoyed with your response is that I carefully used the phrase "pulsed the brakes" in my previous post in order to *avoid* this side-discussion.

-Steve

[Yariz]

Originally Posted by sbergman27

How about a hint? Does pressure on different parts of the brake pedal control different wheel cylinders? Should I start a program of toe exercises, similar to finger strength exercises which piano teachers have their students do? I need some help here. ;-)

The reason I was slightly annoyed with your response is that I carefully used the phrase "pulsed the brakes" in my previous post in order to *avoid* this side-discussion.

-Steve

Well Steve,

It just sounds like you need to read up a bit.





LOL, I am just pulling your chain dude. I am sure you know how to drive....

[sbergman27]

Originally Posted by Yariz

LOL, I am just pulling your chain dude.

Thanks for that. I was just about to place my order.

-Steve

[Yariz]

Sweet, maybe I can practice with them so I can type with my feet.