Debunking fuel conservation myths...

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by STC

If the US Government was serious about conservation and forced Americans to pay $8 a gallon, you would see some conservation with those who get it, but unfortunately most others would gripe and then happily dish out money and further place themselves in debt, never changing their selfish narcissistic habits. Oh, and meanwhile the US Government would probably create a program to entitle gas credits to middle a lower income classes to further place people to suck on the hind tit of government (financial dependence/modern serfdom) and keep them spending just as much for gas when gas was under $4! LOL! Hypocricy at its best...

And where would the tax money go if this was the case? To strengthen the economy? create industry? infrastructure? Nope to the corporate pluto/crimeocacy of wealth and privelage...

You sound like you are against freedom of choice. There is not reason to conserve. There is enough oil and gas for many decades to come. If someone wants to drive a big truck, power to them. It isn't governments place to raise the price of something just to impose some inane ideology that a bunch of ivy league nerds want.

[STC]

Originally Posted by daf62757

You sound like you are against freedom of choice. There is not reason to conserve. There is enough oil and gas for many decades to come. If someone wants to drive a big truck, power to them. It isn't governments place to raise the price of something just to impose some inane ideology that a bunch of ivy league nerds want.

Actually, I'm all about 'Freedom of Choice', including limited economic government dealings and of course limited personal intrusion. I'm a Libertarian... I'm not the commercialized libertarian in what we are seeing in establishment entertainment media politics of so called libertarians. I was just saying "if" government is to... then this is what would happen. That is all that I was saying.

Government is broken and gridlocked. There is actually a relationship between Capital (Private) and Government (Public) that actually serves the special interest groups, not the people. Government for the corporations and by the corporations... a Corporatocracy. And the political dichotomy benefits keeping the left and right strong... the illusion. Both Left and Right, albeit a small difference are actually the same... ... The false political dichotomy with corruption!

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Makes me laugh... The US pays less for fuel than just about any country on the planet! If the US was serious about conservation, they would charge the same for fuel as they do in the UK, or even Canada. (Which kind of blows Big Dave's theory about cheaper fuel; sorry Dave) Pay $8 a gallon, then watch conservation in action!

In general if the US had the public policy of the UK, Canada and the rest of the developed world we'd be better off.

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by daf62757

It isn't governments place to raise the price of something just to impose some inane ideology that a bunch of ivy league nerds want.

Cognitive dissonance, try it sometime. How can thoughts derived by intellectuals be inane?

[fmicle]

I agree with PhotoDu.de on the last two items.

We need a certain degree of government control and intervention, it's not as easy as "if someone wants to do something, the government should let them do it". I, for one, would like to pee on the street, why is the government forbidding me to do that? I'm hoping you'll get the idea.

Government can influence, or should I say, steer or guide certain public habits, through sensible policy, such as encourage good healthy habits and discourage destructive behavior, even though it is legal and allowed.

Look at how Sweden, for instance, has brought alcoholism under control, by imposing high taxes on alcohol. You can still have a beer, but they brought one big problem under control and the entire society benefited from the results: increased productivity, lower mortality, etc.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by PhotoDu.de

Cognitive dissonance, try it sometime. How can thoughts derived by intellectuals be inane?

Don't confuse intelligence with wisdom! That is why our country is in such a mess. Because we have so many intelligent idiots in charge!

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by daf62757

intelligent idiots

That's an oxymoron.

[zachryboles]

Originally Posted by fmicle

You can still have a beer, but they brought one big problem under control and the entire society benefited from the results: increased productivity, lower mortality, etc.

: laugh:
oh i rofl at the amount of fail that libs have to think that the government should dictate my habits outside of not killing people or showing my dick in the street.................. if i want to poison myself with booze, marijuana, cigs and the like then so be it..... if i want to use a car that is under 15 mpg then so be it...... its not a moral issue to use "fossil fuels" good to know that controlling people lowered mortality but seriously i doubt random drunkenness was the main cause of death in that country..... multiple sets of numbers from scientists or it didn't fucking happen.

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by zachryboles

: laugh:
oh i rofl at the amount of fail that libs have to think that the government should dictate my habits outside of not killing people or showing my dick in the street.................. if i want to poison myself with booze, marijuana, cigs and the like then so be it..... if i want to use a car that is under 15 mpg then so be it...... its not a moral issue to use "fossil fuels" good to know that controlling people lowered mortality but seriously i doubt random drunkenness was the main cause of death in that country..... multiple sets of numbers from scientists or it didn't fucking happen.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/833483.stm
http://people.su.se/~totto/downloadable_publications/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol...ages_in_Sweden

Try proper punctuation and grammar next time. It will make you look like somebody with an intelligent thought and not like a high school girl sending a text message.

Also, you have full right to do those things, you just need to pay for the cost of the negative side effects of those things. Seems only fair.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by PhotoDu.de

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/833483.stm
http://people.su.se/~totto/downloadable_publications/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol...ages_in_Sweden

Try proper punctuation and grammar next time. It will make you look like somebody with an intelligent thought and not like a high school girl sending a text message.

Also, you have full right to do those things, you just need to pay for the cost of the negative side effects of those things. Seems only fair.

Should liberals have to pay for all the damage they are doing to our individual rights? Seems to me that is where the more serious damage is occurring.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by STC

Actually, I'm all about 'Freedom of Choice', including limited economic government dealings and of course limited personal intrusion. I'm a Libertarian... I'm not the commercialized libertarian in what we are seeing in establishment entertainment media politics of so called libertarians. I was just saying "if" government is to... then this is what would happen. That is all that I was saying.

Government is broken and gridlocked. There is actually a relationship between Capital (Private) and Government (Public) that actually serves the special interest groups, not the people. Government for the corporations and by the corporations... a Corporatocracy. And the political dichotomy benefits keeping the left and right strong... the illusion. Both Left and Right, albeit a small difference are actually the same... ... The false political dichotomy with corruption!

Good post....and excellent Yaris color!

[Astroman]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Should liberals have to pay for all the damage they are doing to our individual rights? Seems to me that is where the more serious damage is occurring.

Bush was the one who suspended habeas corpus, remember? Try watching something other than fox news, it may surprise you.

[Henry G.]

Electric cars use batteries. Toxic batteries that are toxic to make, and toxic to recycle. And the power comes from.....?
Electric plants that burn coal, natural gas, fuel oil, peakers that burn jet fuel, tell me is that cleaner than Ultra Low Emission Vehicles? NO. And the losses to transmit and distribute that electricity, the heat given off charging the batteries....?
Electric vehicles are an enviornmental joke until they charge from solar or wind sources.....I'll keep my sporty litttle 105 hp roller skate car, I just pray I dont get into an accident or I know I'm dead.

[mryaris]

Originally Posted by Henry G.

I just pray I dont get into an accident or I know I'm dead.

Why would you say this? The Yaris is a pretty safe little car. Obviously if you get hit by an 18-wheeler you're screwed,but that would be true in almost any other car on the road as well. I effectively hit a guard rail head on at 50MPH (fishtailed on black ice) and then rolled it over onto it's side and walked away without a scratch. The car also held up very well.....no intrusions into the cabin, etc.



**sorry for the hijack!!**

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by zachryboles

: laugh:
oh i rofl at the amount of fail that libs have to think that the government should dictate my habits outside of not killing people or showing my dick in the street.................. if i want to poison myself with booze, marijuana, cigs and the like then so be it..... if i want to use a car that is under 15 mpg then so be it...... its not a moral issue to use "fossil fuels" good to know that controlling people lowered mortality but seriously i doubt random drunkenness was the main cause of death in that country..... multiple sets of numbers from scientists or it didn't fucking happen.

Maybe you should actually read what I wrote and not just scan the keywords. I never said anything about government "dictating" your habits. I said that government can and should encourage proper behavior. It's common sense. Something you should try exercising as well sometimes.

If you want to drown in booze and sniff marijuana, go ahead and be my guest, but when you get cancer, or otherwise end up in the hospital, don't ask me to pay for it. Usually, those who do push these bad habits to the extreme, more often than not, do not have insurance and us taxpayers end up footing the bill. How messed up is that?

It does become a moral issue when people die so that you can keep driving your 15 mpg truck. And I'm not saying you should not be allowed to do it. All I'm saying is that you should be paying a little more than those who drive 30 mpg cars. Just like flying 1st class, you know? Common sense.

Oh, and just FYI, plenty of guys can pee discreetly without showing their dick, so obviously you still have a lot to learn...

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by daf62757

Should liberals have to pay for all the damage they are doing to our individual rights? Seems to me that is where the more serious damage is occurring.

I am not a big fan of liberals, but if you do just a little bit of homework, just a bit, not too much, so your brain doesn't overheat or something, you'll see that most of our rights that we enjoy today were fought for by liberals...

[fmicle]

Originally Posted by Henry G.

Electric cars use batteries. Toxic batteries that are toxic to make, and toxic to recycle. And the power comes from.....?
Electric plants that burn coal, natural gas, fuel oil, peakers that burn jet fuel, tell me is that cleaner than Ultra Low Emission Vehicles? NO. And the losses to transmit and distribute that electricity, the heat given off charging the batteries....?
Electric vehicles are an enviornmental joke until they charge from solar or wind sources.....I'll keep my sporty litttle 105 hp roller skate car, I just pray I dont get into an accident or I know I'm dead.

Think about this for bit, at night, when America is sleeping, what do power plants do? Do they shut down? No, you can't shut down a power plant for a few hours, just because there is no demand. Technically, it's not feasible. You can turn down the output a bit, but that's about it. So lots and lots of electricity is... wasted! Simply wasted. Why not use that to recharge your "toxic" batteries? There is no extra pollution generated.

And also, there is something called "economies of scale", sometimes it's more efficient to produce something on a large scale, it becomes more efficient and cheaper, plus at least you can control where the pollution happens, if you can't eliminate it altogether.

So I'm not convinced by your argument. I'd totally get a Tesla Roadster if it didn't cost $100k

[PhotoDu.de]

Originally Posted by fmicle

I am not a big fan of liberals, but if you do just a little bit of homework, just a bit, not too much, so your brain doesn't overheat or something, you'll see that most of our rights that we enjoy today were fought for by liberals...

Lumping politics into either "conservative" or "liberal" is way too narrow. "Conservatives" don't agree on all policies and visa versa. These terms are only used to be divisive and dumb down the arguments to the level of a sports rivalry; you are either for one team or the other. This division makes it easier to dismiss the other side's argument without actually examining it.
Political discourse in the United States is mindless.