Does your liftback have ABS?

[Andrew Chalmers]

Originally Posted by why?

Bingo. Driving safely negates the need for electronic nanny's.

I guess my question has always been - being a safe driver and all... can you anticipate the actions of idiots out on the road?

[foober]

Originally Posted by Andrew Chalmers

I guess my question has always been - being a safe driver and all... can you anticipate the actions of idiots out on the road?

that is a good question. The answer is you have to be wary of others around you. Full concentration. My old girl friend was always doing this or that in her car. And even on good roads she constantly got into accidents. I myself have always driven defensively knowing that there are idiots all around me. And haven't had an accident to date. 35 years of drivng. Knock on wood. Being careful is the most important thing by far if you ask me. Abs probably does help some. But not nearly as much as being careful.

But, since I've had my little yaris now for two weeks I've almost got into accidents from some really very bad driving habits by other motorists. I haven't had any real problems with other drivers for many years drivng my 98 toyota and 93 nissan pick up trucks. But now having the yaris i've had to use some good driving to stay out of accidents. I'm thinking of getting a flag or something for the car just so folks know I'm there. Or stickers that say I'm "nra" and or "marine corps vet" or this car insured by "smith and wesson."

[SmellyTofu]

Originally Posted by Andrew Chalmers

I guess my question has always been - being a safe driver and all... can you anticipate the actions of idiots out on the road?

Let's not even talk about other drivers.. what about those that don't know the road rules like kids that might run out on the road chasing a ball that's rolled across the road or wildlife that jumps out in front of you without warning whilst you're barrelling down at highway speed?

I got a feeling that why? isn't use ABS properly or isn't close enough to have an accident for ABS not to kick in. You don't modulate your braking with ABS.. you jab the brakes hard and leave it there and that way you will minimise braking distance. Lifting off any amount will increase the distance. If you need to lift off or brake not to a point of ABS activating, then it really isn't that much of an emergency situation.

Sure people can go on for months or years without the ABS kicking in.. does that mean you don't need it? I don't smoke, but does that mean I don't need a cigarette lighter? Also added with ABS is brake assist.. an overlooked item.

[BensVitz]

Thanx guys. I honestly thought the poll results would be the other way around. Afterall, like I said, the sales guy told me that the only way to get ABS was to special order it. Seems like a safe $300.00 option. I'm in no hurry. Maybe I'll order it. I just don't need the $1200 power package for such a small car. Thanx

Ben

[why?]

Originally Posted by Andrew Chalmers

I guess my question has always been - being a safe driver and all... can you anticipate the actions of idiots out on the road?

Yes you can. Assume everyone else is a complete moron. Believe that someone will do something stupid and you will need to avoid the dope.

Leave 1 family sized car length in front of you for every 10 mph you are going.

If someone starts tailgating you, slow down.

If you do not feel 100% in control, slow down.

Basically, the more space between you and any other car on the road, the more time you have to avoid people who shouldn't have licenses.

There is no such thing as going too slow. If you feel you are going too slow and someone is behind you, there is nothing wrong with pulling over. Better off him dead then you.

The Yaris has pretty good brakes, plus it is a light car.

The most important thing is to notice everything. Make sure you know where every other moving object is. If you can't keep track of them all, slow down.

Never assume anything. If someone waves you to go, make sure the dimwit isn't ignoring a car coming full steam ahead the other way. I saw that happen once, I was amazed there was no injuries.

The basic message is to slow down. It is better to arrive somewhere late then to not arrive their at all. Or arrive their with a damaged or destroyed car.

Originally Posted by SmellyTofu

Let's not even talk about other drivers.. what about those that don't know the road rules like kids that might run out on the road chasing a ball that's rolled across the road or wildlife that jumps out in front of you without warning whilst you're barrelling down at highway speed?

I got a feeling that why? isn't use ABS properly or isn't close enough to have an accident for ABS not to kick in. You don't modulate your braking with ABS.. you jab the brakes hard and leave it there and that way you will minimise braking distance. Lifting off any amount will increase the distance. If you need to lift off or brake not to a point of ABS activating, then it really isn't that much of an emergency situation.

Sure people can go on for months or years without the ABS kicking in.. does that mean you don't need it? I don't smoke, but does that mean I don't need a cigarette lighter? Also added with ABS is brake assist.. an overlooked item.

Please don't insult my intelligence.

No kid is going to run out in front of you on the highway. If you are going highway speed in a neighborhood you deserve to die.

As for wildlife, you should know the area you are driving, and look for them. If you are going highway speed then there should be plenty of room off each side of the highway to see any animals that might come on the road, otherwise, you should slow down.

ABS isn't needed if you know how to drive.

I don't smoke and I don't carry a cigarette lighter.

And in the USA & Canada ABS comes with EBD, or electronic brake force distribution. That takes the brake force you apply and decides which wheels to give the breaking power. Brake Assist is only uselful in a panic stop, and it adds to the power of the brake force applied. It is not available in the USA or Canada for the Yaris.

EBD is just another nanny that isn't really needed since 80-90% of the braking force is always on the front wheels, and rear wheel drum brakes aren't going to do much of anything no matter what.

[SmellyTofu]

Said the spelling master.

[Macel]

Originally Posted by why?

Yes you can. Assume everyone else is a complete moron. Believe that someone will do something stupid and you will need to avoid the dope.

Leave 1 family sized car length in front of you for every 10 mph you are going.

If someone starts tailgating you, slow down.

If you do not feel 100% in control, slow down.

Basically, the more space between you and any other car on the road, the more time you have to avoid people who shouldn't have licenses.

There is no such thing as going too slow. If you feel you are going too slow and someone is behind you, there is nothing wrong with pulling over. Better off him dead then you.

The Yaris has pretty good brakes, plus it is a light car.

The most important thing is to notice everything. Make sure you know where every other moving object is. If you can't keep track of them all, slow down.

Never assume anything. If someone waves you to go, make sure the dimwit isn't ignoring a car coming full steam ahead the other way. I saw that happen once, I was amazed there was no injuries.

The basic message is to slow down. It is better to arrive somewhere late then to not arrive their at all. Or arrive their with a damaged or destroyed car.





Please don't insult my intelligence.

No kid is going to run out in front of you on the highway. If you are going highway speed in a neighborhood you deserve to die.

As for wildlife, you should know the area you are driving, and look for them. If you are going highway speed then there should be plenty of room off each side of the highway to see any animals that might come on the road, otherwise, you should slow down.

ABS isn't needed if you know how to drive.

I don't smoke and I don't carry a cigarette lighter.

And in the USA & Canada ABS comes with EBD, or electronic brake force distribution. That takes the brake force you apply and decides which wheels to give the breaking power. Brake Assist is only uselful in a panic stop, and it adds to the power of the brake force applied. It is not available in the USA or Canada for the Yaris.

EBD is just another nanny that isn't really needed since 80-90% of the braking force is always on the front wheels, and rear wheel drum brakes aren't going to do much of anything no matter what.

You obviously still have a lot to learn. Being careful WILL protect you from most accidents, but there's always the possibility of something unexpected happening. I think the fact that you are so confident in your driving abilities shows that you may not be as careful a driver as you claim to be.

[mygrnthmb]

Originally Posted by why?

Yes you can. Assume everyone else is a complete moron. Believe that someone will do something stupid and you will need to avoid the dope.

Leave 1 family sized car length in front of you for every 10 mph you are going.

If someone starts tailgating you, slow down.

If you do not feel 100% in control, slow down.

Basically, the more space between you and any other car on the road, the more time you have to avoid people who shouldn't have licenses.

There is no such thing as going too slow. If you feel you are going too slow and someone is behind you, there is nothing wrong with pulling over. Better off him dead then you.

The Yaris has pretty good brakes, plus it is a light car.

The most important thing is to notice everything. Make sure you know where every other moving object is. If you can't keep track of them all, slow down.

Never assume anything. If someone waves you to go, make sure the dimwit isn't ignoring a car coming full steam ahead the other way. I saw that happen once, I was amazed there was no injuries.

The basic message is to slow down. It is better to arrive somewhere late then to not arrive their at all. Or arrive their with a damaged or destroyed car.





Please don't insult my intelligence.

No kid is going to run out in front of you on the highway. If you are going highway speed in a neighborhood you deserve to die.

As for wildlife, you should know the area you are driving, and look for them. If you are going highway speed then there should be plenty of room off each side of the highway to see any animals that might come on the road, otherwise, you should slow down.

ABS isn't needed if you know how to drive.

I don't smoke and I don't carry a cigarette lighter.

And in the USA & Canada ABS comes with EBD, or electronic brake force distribution. That takes the brake force you apply and decides which wheels to give the breaking power. Brake Assist is only uselful in a panic stop, and it adds to the power of the brake force applied. It is not available in the USA or Canada for the Yaris.

EBD is just another nanny that isn't really needed since 80-90% of the braking force is always on the front wheels, and rear wheel drum brakes aren't going to do much of anything no matter what.

Man I tell ya .... I get so tired of your condecending tripe. I'd like to say I'll just ignore your comments, but you obviously seem compelled to show your huge intelligence on every single subject. I'm from the U.S. and I just want everyone to know I'm embarassed by you and your attitude. It's no wonder other countires think of us as greedy know-it-alls. For the record, WE ALL KNOW YOU DRIVE A FRIGGIN SAAB !!!

[stuffy]

It is just another nanny device for people that shouldn't have drivers licenses.

my yaris is the first car i have ever owned with abs, and i couldn't believe how incredible it was in winter driving,
i think the danger with abs is that people get used to driving with it, then if they are ever in a situation where they are driving a car without it, they might get in trouble if they try to brake hard and steer on icy surfaces,

abs kind of gets you doing the opposite of what you should do,

but damn, it works real good!

[ricko]

Trust me "mygrnthmb", Canadians know enough about our neighbours not to paint you all with the same brush.

[Andrew Chalmers]

After reading the responses to my rhetorical question...

I have to say - people who have total confidence in their driving obviously live under the impression that in life - everything can be controlled and that they have control of everything.

I'll like to see how they plan to get out of a hairy situation like if a driver falls asleep at the wheel on the opposite side of the road, crosses the median and stops in front of you on icy roads...

now I'm not saying ABS is necessary - in fact, few things in life are. Seatbelts aren't necessary. But calling ABS technological nannies sounds like something coming out of the ego and not from the intellect. Anything that adds safety within an affordable price + without added inconvinence = good in my book.

I bet 80 years ago - there was someone saying disc brakes are not necessary and neither are automatic engine starters... i mean - a crank is sufficient and anyone healthy enough and good enough of a driver wouldn't need it.

[SmellyTofu]

I have renewed faith that this forum has people that can have differing opinions and not be a tool at the same time.

[foober]

Originally Posted by SmellyTofu

Let's not even talk about other drivers.. what about those that don't know the road rules like kids that might run out on the road chasing a ball that's rolled across the road or wildlife that jumps out in front of you without warning whilst you're barrelling down at highway speed?

I got a feeling that why? isn't use ABS properly or isn't close enough to have an accident for ABS not to kick in. You don't modulate your braking with ABS.. you jab the brakes hard and leave it there and that way you will minimise braking distance. Lifting off any amount will increase the distance. If you need to lift off or brake not to a point of ABS activating, then it really isn't that much of an emergency situation.

Sure people can go on for months or years without the ABS kicking in.. does that mean you don't need it? I don't smoke, but does that mean I don't need a cigarette lighter? Also added with ABS is brake assist.. an overlooked item.

If car manufacturers really cared about thier cars and the people that drove them they'd put air bags on the outside of the cars to protect the car and persons from impact. We spend thousands of dollars on the inside bags so whats up with not having outside bags that can be inflated by the persons inside the car or by the touch of another car impacting with so much impact. Come on car manufacturers. Wake up. I really want to be protected.

[Andrew Chalmers]

Originally Posted by foober

If car manufacturers really cared about thier cars and the people that drove them they'd put air bags on the outside of the cars to protect the car and persons from impact. We spend thousands of dollars on the inside bags so whats up with not having outside bags that can be inflated by the persons inside the car or by the touch of another car impacting with so much impact. Come on car manufacturers. Wake up. I really want to be protected.

I'm not very good at physics - but I believe an outside airbag wouldn't protect anything... airbags work because it prevents the people inside the car from directly stricking hard objects at full force... by letting them hit a compressable mass (air) and releasing the mass pressure in a controlled manner...

What would an airbag do if it just deploys after another vehicle hits another vehicle? One thing to slow a person's mass down... another to try with a car??? Even if you save the car - say you hit a brick wall that won't collapse and the airbag deploys after you hit the wall... you'll just increase the amount of forces the people inside the vehicle will have to endure - talk about major whiplash (imagine going full speed and hitting something - then getting jerked back).

[SmellyTofu]

Originally Posted by foober

If car manufacturers really cared about thier cars and the people that drove them they'd put air bags on the outside of the cars to protect the car and persons from impact. We spend thousands of dollars on the inside bags so whats up with not having outside bags that can be inflated by the persons inside the car or by the touch of another car impacting with so much impact. Come on car manufacturers. Wake up. I really want to be protected.

Yeap, there has been work on outside airbags done in the 70's back when airbags were just an idea for the occupants.

One thing people might not know is in Europe, pedestrian safety standards have to be met and many manufacturers produce things that "cushion" the impact to pedestrians being run over.

E.g. Springs on the hinge of the bonnet of your current Subaru Legacy is one thing that is not known. Push hard on the hinge side of the bonnet and it will go down and spring back. They also use an aluminimum bonnet for both weight saving and softness over traditional steel. There are many more innovative items on all cars that help soften the blow to the head when a person is "run over".

[Dweeb]

I know this is going to stir some s**t, but…

ABS on a Street car will not stop you any sooner than a car with out them. (this is the biggest misconception, and also provides drivers with a false sense of security).
In almost all instances (with the exception of a few very specific conditions), a car with ABS will actually take longer to stop than a car with out ABS.
What ABS was “primarily” designed for, was to prevent wheel lock-up under hard/panic breaking “most people lock up their brakes under hard/panic braking” so they would be able to steer. (in panic braking situations, most people freeze, close their eyes, and even scream sometimes). (as you know, when wheels locked up, you cannot steer).
Mind you, most “people” do not know how to module (thresh hold breaking) their brakes, so ABS does work/does what it supposed to do, allow you to steer while braking under the mentioned conditions, but does not stop you any sooner (shorter distance).

These OEM systems for ABS have been designed for a car that has to see different condition, drivers, roads, tires, tires pressures, widths of tire, tire compounds… etc, you get the idea, so it has to be very flexible “general”. So when you have to make a program that runs the ABS system, the ABS pump, sensors, you need to take a lot of factors into consideration. Plus things like, car speed, wheel speed, wheel speed difference, steering angle on certain cars, yaw angle,… you get my point. There are way too many factors to make the system work properly in all conditions.

Some people say that race cars have these systems…. Well…

You cannot not compare “Race ABS/Traction Control” systems with the ones put on a production cars. For one reason, the cost. These systems cost more that your average car.
Also ABS in nothing compare to Traction Control. (Traction control is used in both scenarios, as in acceleration and braking on race cars.) Here is an indication, actual Street Legal Exotic performance cars DO NOT have ABS, they have advanced traction controls, not to the point of F1 or WRC rally cars, but much better that ABS.

ABS, EBD and all the newest hoop-la, has (man I hate to say this) a place in this society that is more interested in how many cup-holders, ABS ,EBD, a car has, than actually “learning to drive, observing the road conditions, and knowing you vehicles characteristics”. Thus making you a better and a safer driver that all of these gadgets together.
No matter what systems you put in that car, it is STILL the “driver” that makes all the difference. The Driver is still the one that will avoid the vehicle in front of him/you, NOT the ABS or the EBD or what ever system they put in the car.

my wife said it best one day - ABS = Alotof Bull S**t

Sorry for the rant boys and girls…



Dweeb

[SmellyTofu]

You are right. There are instances ABS does extend braking distance more than necessary however, what ABS does very well is be consistent.. be it consistently poorly or consistently well. After a few beers, ABS will still perform as well as sober provided you actuate the brake pedal in the same manner (and time). That's the winning factor of ABS is that it does not discriminate against skill level, age, strength and familiarity.

I change from car to car on sometimes a daily basis and it's impossible to get intimate with a vehicle in the first 100m or so. For me, ABS is more important than airbags.

[plushDJ]

I personally find ABS annoying, I used to drive a Yukon with it and especially in winter, annoying!!!!