Synthetic Oil

[static808]

Originally Posted by nsmitchell

I did some research on 5W-20 and 0W-20 and found that it will give better mileage, but may cause more engine wear over time compared with using 5W-30 or 0W-30. This was all discussed in a thread about the Toyota 5W-20 TSB. This is due to the size of the suspended particles staying the same but the film thickness is decreased. I'm sticking with 0W-30 and Napa Gold filters. Maybe even a mixture of the two weights. hmmm....

good info, i havent heard about that or done much research about the 20 weights. time to start reading up again...

--B

[Kaotic Lazagna]

hmmm, now you have me worried, but then again, Black Yaris said that the Prius comes with that weight and viscosity oil.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

hmmm, now you have me worried, but then again, Black Yaris said that the Prius comes with that weight and viscosity oil.

Never confuse the engine in the Yaris with the one in the Prius. Even though they have the same designation (1NZ-FE) there are 2 major differences between them:

1) The Prius' ECU runs the engine in an Atkins cycle which involves a longer spark at a lower temperature (for ionization) and requires less fuel as it burns more thoroughly but at a lower RPM/torque level. The Yaris' ECU runs the engine in a typical Otto configuration which involves a short and hot spark at the top of the compression stroke. This means the Yaris' engine runs at higher RPM and hotter.

2) The Prius' engine is almost never in a direct wheel feed scenario. The engine feeds to the HSD and the battery (which in turn runs the electric motor), and the HSD plays a hardcore game of matching inputs from both the engine and motor to produce torque in the CVT. The CVT in turn plays a hardcore game of balancing torque input and output to produce movement. These systems are a far cry from the Yaris' direct feed to either a transmission (MT) or torque converter (AT) which immediately convert torque to wheel drive.


The point of all of this is that the Prius' engine only receives about 1/3 the beating that the Yaris' does. As such you can get away with a lighter oil in the Prius than you can in the Yaris.

As with most other things sticking to the manufacturer's recommendations is best, and Toyota says 5W-30 for the Yaris.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Never confuse the engine in the Yaris with the one in the Prius. Even though they have the same designation (1NZ-FE) there are 2 major differences between them:

1) The Prius' ECU runs the engine in an Atkins cycle which involves a longer spark at a lower temperature (for ionization) and requires less fuel as it burns more thoroughly but at a lower RPM/torque level. The Yaris' ECU runs the engine in a typical Otto configuration which involves a short and hot spark at the top of the compression stroke. This means the Yaris' engine runs at higher RPM and hotter.

2) The Prius' engine is almost never in a direct wheel feed scenario. The engine feeds to the HSD and the battery (which in turn runs the electric motor), and the HSD plays a hardcore game of matching inputs from both the engine and motor to produce torque in the CVT. The CVT in turn plays a hardcore game of balancing torque input and output to produce movement. These systems are a far cry from the Yaris' direct feed to either a transmission (MT) or torque converter (AT) which immediately convert torque to wheel drive.


The point of all of this is that the Prius' engine only receives about 1/3 the beating that the Yaris' does. As such you can get away with a lighter oil in the Prius than you can in the Yaris.

As with most other things sticking to the manufacturer's recommendations is best, and Toyota says 5W-30 for the Yaris.

what about the TSB's that were mentioned earlier?

[BailOut]

I'm not saying that TSB doesn't exist by any means but no one ever provided the text of it or even the reference number of it, and I can't find anything on it myself. Without it we have no idea what the reasoning was, when the option applies, if it's valid for all regions and temperature patterns, etc.

As such sticking with 5W-30 is a safe bet and covers a huge temperature range. This is important to me because between where I live and work there is a 4,500ft elevation difference. In the Winter my car can experience temperatures as low as 14F with a wind chill of -20F and in the Summer it can experience temperatures as high as 100F. Because this is a high desert just our night and day delta can be 40F+ (i.e. 49F at night and 89F during the day), and the delta between my home and work can be as much as 30F over a 40 minute commute.

Besides, just switching to synthetic vs. standard oil will net you the most MPG gain. You won't see as much performance or MPG difference between different synthetics like 5W-30, 0W-20 and 5W-20.


Edit: Additionally, the person that was most adamant about that TSB was also the most adamant about a 5,000 mile drain interval. This shows an utter lack of eduction concerning modern synthetics which are commonly good for 7,500 miles, with some going as far as 15,000. This makes any information on this subject from that person suspect.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Edit: Additionally, the person that was most adamant about that TSB was also the most adamant about a 5,000 mile drain interval. This shows an utter lack of eduction concerning modern synthetics which are commonly good for 7,500 miles, with some going as far as 15,000. This makes any information on this subject from that person suspect.

me being adamant about the drain interval has nothing to do with my education about oil and synthetics. My choice to change every 5000 has to do with with being a new model year car and things are going to happen, lets say I do have a warranty issue down the road and they want my records of my oil changes every 5000? That is the main reason I am changing every 5000 untill warranty is up... after that every 10k, because my oil is still clean after 5000 miles, but it is the price I am going to pay to adhear to my warranty scheadual. This is all information I stated earlier in the post so if you would do as much as READ you would not make FASLE accusations.

[churp]

Don't know about the TSB on the lighter viscosity....but are you saying there is a TSB on going further than 5,000 between changes by Toyota? Because only thing I've seen on that is the 5,000.....seems to me that Toyota should be the higher authority on their car than the oil marketing team! IMO by the way....

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by churp

Don't know about the TSB on the lighter viscosity....but are you saying there is a TSB on going further than 5,000 between changes by Toyota? Because only thing I've seen on that is the 5,000.....seems to me that Toyota should be the higher authority on their car than the oil marketing team! IMO by the way....

Bailout is here just to confuse you churp just keep changing your oil every 5000 like you are supposed to

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by churp

....but are you saying there is a TSB on going further than 5,000 between changes by Toyota?

A TSB can be issued against something like viscosity because that follows an industry standard unit of measurement. Drain intervals, however, do not, and are subject purely to the creator of the oil.

On a lighter note, if you're that worried about Toyota's wishes then maybe you should stick with standard oil. That's what your car shipped with, after all. ;)

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

Bailout is here just to confuse you churp just keep changing your oil every 5000 like you are supposed to

Everyone here needs to realize that the drain interval debate is purely opinion on all our parts. Some like to think conservative while others like to take advantage of new science and technology. By all means stay with 5,000 mile changes if it makes you feel more secure, but I'll only be making 1 trip to the lube shop while you make 3, and we'll each have the same level of engine protection.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

i see what Black Yaris is talking about with the 5000 mile intervals.

[blacksan]

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

My family used Amsoil in heavy equipment for years with high quality filters like Wix. Our equipment received regular oil analysis as this heavy metal was more then quarter of a million at a pop. Having said that I really like Amsoil!!! Just because it is black does not mean that it is not working better then brand new dino butter.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

cool, i work Saturday mornings, Sunday evening, and Monday evenings.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

my cousin's old Cressida lasted 400k before the engine finally gave up. as for me, i'm sticking to the 5k interval for the warranty purposes. afterwards, i think i'll change at 7,500 if conditions where i live permit me.