New subcompacts for 2009, 2010

[Thirty-Nine]

Just my latest post on Subcompact Culture about the new-for-2009-and-2010 crop of subcompact cars.

http://www.subcompactculture.com/200...-new-cars.html

[toad]

good read! i really like that swift.

[Morgan]

I thought you could get a 5spd in the 5 door, for some reason I seem to remember seeing one at the dealer, could be wrong....

[GeneW]

Figures.... once again "they're" kissing Honda's patootie and kicking Toyota's...

Finally, the U.S. gets the five-door Yaris. The extra two doors mean it's easier for passengers to get in the back seat. There was a minor refresh to the front end, too. The Yaris five-door gets decent mileage; an EPA rating of 29/35 for the four-speed automatic, which, by the way, is the only choice of transmission if you want five doors. Although powered by a small 1.5 liter DOHC engine, the car only weighs about 2,300 lbs. Also new for '09 are standard side-impact airbags and a new "S" package for both 3- and 5-door liftbacks.

What could be one of the most anticipated Toyota releases in a while, the Smart-fighting iQ will bring some competition to the micro car market. Debuting as soon as early 2009, the iQ will seat "3+1"people (three adults, and one child), possibly be powered by a 1.5 (via the Yaris) or 1.3 liter engine, and may come with ABS, skid control, and other driving aids. (Full details are not known yet.) There's even a possibility the vehicle could appear under the Scion brand. Stay tuned.

The 2009 Honda Fit has been for sale already for a few months, but it is an '09 model. Powered by a 117 hp 1.5 liter VTEC engine, the Fit is a fine choice of subcompact. The all-new design is spacious, versatile, and attractive. Like the previous-generation Fit, it has nimble reflexes, great fuel economy (35 highway mpg), and a lot of standard features that many believe make it the king of subcompacts.

Gene

[GeneW]

I've never driven nor worked on a Honda FIT.

Let's reframe this description of the Yaris...

Continuing a tradition at Toyota of keeping the best and improving upon it, the Yaris continues the decade long global experience of the Belta/Vios/Yaris package in a newer more refined package.

This year for the first time Toyota is introducing to US customers the five door hatchback model. Side curtain airbags are now a standard option for the Yaris, bringing it closer to its competitors in the subcompact class.

The Yaris uses proven engine and drive train technology that is optimized for fuel efficiency. The VVT-i technology is a direct descendant of proven variable valve technology that was first introduced by Toyota in the 1980s. A simplified emissions control system results in fewer problems than in many competitor's systems yet the Yaris is EPA certified as an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle.

In spite of this technological sophistication the engine is in keeping with the Toyota tradition of ease of service, resulting in lower bills at your mechanic should the need for such a visit ever arise. Due to its clever engineering and engine layout the Yaris practically invites its owners to do much of the required routine maintenance. Many of the parts of a Yaris are "off of the shelf", a practice that makes the car inexpensive to make and inexpensive to own.

The Yaris capable of fair acceleration within its class and is nimble and responsive. Capable of functioning in tropical heat, desert dryness and northern European winters the Yaris is a stable and reliable performer in many climates and road conditions.

The Yaris routinely leads in its class in terms of fuel efficiency, especially in highway driving. In EPA tests the Yaris is only exceeded by hybrid vehicles in terms of highway mileage.

The Yaris concept is sold all over the world, giving Toyota extensive experience in developing a vehicle which is loaded with value. The global reach of the Yaris/Belta/Vios concept also results in a global source for parts resulting in many cases in low spares costs.

The Toyota tradition of serving the customer and listening to their needs has propelled Toyota to world market leadership. This attention to detail and quality is focused even upon the littlest and least expensive Toyota.

While many smaller cars may be faster, flashier or "more exciting" the Yaris leads the way, in fuel economy, ease of repair and over all bang for the buck.

There, that's better...

Gene

[Treyz]

Originally Posted by Morgan

I thought you could get a 5spd in the 5 door, for some reason I seem to remember seeing one at the dealer, could be wrong....

As far as I know, all A/T.

[Thirty-Nine]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Figures.... once again "they're" kissing Honda's patootie and kicking Toyota's

Gene

By no means were they ... er I mean ... was I knocking Toyota on my Web site (I own both makes by the way). The Fit is, however, typically the more acclaimed vehicle by the automotive press, which is why many people believe it's the best on the market.

And although your description of the Yaris is fine and very descriptive, it's longer than I would've wrote. I'm always open to feedback, though.

[ChinoCharles]

39, that was a very cool article. Thanks!

I have no idea what my next car is. Almost that time, though. Like I said before, I think it is gonna have to be American. No Ford Fiesta for me, though. The Yaris will probably be my only subcompact.

[Thirty-Nine]

Thanks!

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

By no means were they ... er I mean ... was I knocking Toyota on my Web site (I own both makes by the way). The Fit is, however, typically the more acclaimed vehicle by the automotive press, which is why many people believe it's the best on the market.

The FIT gets advertised to hell and back and is "acclaimed" by Honda sells less than the Yaris.

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

And although your description of the Yaris is fine and very descriptive, it's longer than I would've wrote. I'm always open to feedback, though.

How about I do a little emphasis change?

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

Finally, the U.S. gets the five-door Yaris. The extra two doors mean it's easier for passengers to get in the back seat. There was a minor refresh to the front end, too. The Yaris five-door gets decent mileage; an EPA rating of 29/35 for the four-speed automatic, which, by the way, is the only choice of transmission if you want five doors. Although powered by a small 1.5 liter DOHC engine, the car only weighs about 2,300 lbs. Also new for '09 are standard side-impact airbags and a new "S" package for both 3- and 5-door liftbacks.

The long anticipated 5 dr HD Yaris has arrived in America! Those two extra doors improve access to the Yaris's roomy interior and help create a more family oriented Yaris. The Yaris has an EPA estimated 35 mpg, placing it below only the Hybrids of the Toyota family. Powered by the high tech VVT-i 1.5 liter engine, the Yaris has obtained a coveted EPA "Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle" status. New for the 2009 Yaris are side impact airbags and an ABS system as a standard option. A new "S" package is available for both three and five door liftbacks. The Yaris is Toyota's unsung hero, giving the automotive giant an entry level vehicle which is a smart choice for young and thrifty car buyers.

Originally Posted by Thirty-Nine

The 2009 Honda Fit has been for sale already for a few months, but it is an '09 model. Powered by a 117 hp 1.5 liter VTEC engine, the Fit is a fine choice of subcompact. The all-new design is spacious, versatile, and attractive. Like the previous-generation Fit, it has nimble reflexes, great fuel economy (35 highway mpg), and a lot of standard features that many believe make it the king of subcompacts.

The Honda FIT continues to gain market share, approaching its competitors in volume. Powered by a thrifty 1.5 liter four cylinder engine the FIT can hold its own on the highway. The 2009 FIT has substantial fuel economy, at 35 mpg and has many features such as side curtain airbags, power assisted steering and crush impact zones. The FIT has obtained an Ultra-Low Emission Vehicle rating from the California Air Resources Board. These attributes make the Honda FIT a great first time car or a good choice for the discriminating consumer who wants economical excitement.

Gene

[ChinoCharles]

I think the idea is that he is trying to NOT sound like a homer, Gene.

The good news is I've sent your drafts to Consumer Reports. You don't have to thank me for the job, though.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

I think the idea is that he is trying to NOT sound like a homer, Gene.

Mind expanding upon that one and why it applies here? I checked the urban dictionary and cannot see an application here.

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

The good news is I've sent your drafts to Consumer Reports. You don't have to thank me for the job, though.

Hey, it can't hurt, even I"m not on the Consumer's Soviet Union panel of "experts".

Gene

[ddongbap]

Gene is pretty oneway opinionated.

Anyways, wanting to end with last word with just about everything, I'll end there. Cause I'm immature about that.







I am TOTALLY down for one of those Fiestas.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

Gene is pretty oneway opinionated.

I own a Honda, a 1990 CRX DX. 190,000 miles. Out of warranty.

Last time I changed the oil on it I managed to rip the engine temp sensor plug off of the temp sensor. Yeah, you have to have a hoist to change the oil on a CRX, or have very skinny arms. Honda put the oil filter in the center of the block, right under the intake manifold. Swell, I had to replace the sensor boot in the street in the middle of winter. Fun.

You see, Ddongdap, in order to change that filter I had to lean over the car, balancing myself on the fender, and reach around the intake manifold. I didn't quite make it.

I've also changed the alternator and the radiator.

To remove the alternator you need to remove the driver side wheel and the CV joint. Alternately you can remove part of the engine cooling system. The last time I changed it I had to hammer out the bottom mounting pin. Honda thoughtfully cadmium plated it to reduce rust but they did not savvy that bolts scuff, removing the cadmium. They also did not realize that the position of the alternator causes road spray to deposit onto the pin. The combination causes the pins to rust into place. I needed a two pound hammer and a drift pin to pound out the mounting pin.

During my search for parts I discovered that the CRX for that year used one of four different kinds of Nippon-Denso alternators. I could not find one and had to have the one I had rebuilt. This was the FOURTH ALTERNATOR that this car consumed during its life. Apparently Honda put the car so close to the edge with respect to its electrical requirements that the hatchback defrost eat alternators. Brilliant!

To remove the radiator on CRX models with AC it is necessary to remove the manifolds for the AC condenser. Some idiot at Honda decided to sandwich the radiator between the AC manifold and the condenser assembly. To remove the radiator the first thing you do is remove the R-12 refrigerant from the AC system. Brilliant! Then you have to partially remove the AC system to remove the radiator. Brilliant!

I also had the celebrated "Honda Starter Relay problem". Honda in the late 1980s used carbs. When they shifted to their first FI systems rather than use an integrated relay they put in an extra one, in the passenger compartment near the driver's left knee. Your friendly Chilton manual does not specify this so I partially ripped out the fuse assy looking for it. Finally found the damn thing behind the change drawer.

The Mashuta produced relays were defective and had annular (ring shaped) cracks in their solder. This problem produced a condition where the Honda would start cold, run fine but when you parked it for short periods of time would fail to start (the relay wouldn't work to turn on the fuel pump). I spent a year dicking with it. Finally discovered an online article, removed the relay and reflowed the solder. Before I knew that this was the cause I had had to replace various electronic and hydraulic parts - I did not understand the problem you see.


Oh, no, Dongdap, I'm not quite finished yet. I saved the best for last.

Every 100,000 miles you have to change the timing belt. To change the timing belt in a Honda of that vintage your first remove the exhaust manifold, then you detach various hoses, wires and other stuff. Then supporting the motor you remove the engine mounts and "Float" the motor. Brilliant!

Float the motor means that it sits atop a conveyance, at an angle, where you can access the crankshaft pulley, which requires removing and replacing a bolt that needs 200 ft pounds of torque.

I'm not finished yet.... then you remove the valve cover, the timing chain cover, and the alternator and AC belts.

While you've got this mess apart you remove the water pump, remove the timing belt, and hopefully you were wise enough to get new timing belt tensioners to replace the old ones.

If the camshaft assembly seals have failed you have to replace them, HOPEFULLY the camshaft does not have a score in it from the previous seal. Otherwise you remove the head and take it down too, replacing perhaps the head and camshaft assy.

Put the blasted thing back together, making sure that align it properly. Otherwise you'll damage the valves as the DOHC 1.5 liter motor is an "interference fit" motor. If you do it all right you get about 100,000 miles more running time.

F--k Honda Motor Corp and their stupid parts placement. I work in manufacturing and know how to build things. You do not put parts that routinely fail into places where they cannot be removed easily. That pisses off customers.


The Toyota Yaris uses a timing chain, mounts the oil filter in the front of the motor, mounts the alternator on the top of the motor, mounts the radiator where it too can breathe. Plenty of room with which to work.

The nicest part is that while the car is hardly perfect it is quite reliable.

I have a good reason to be prejudiced against the Honda FIT. I think it's high time that I took some photos for the benefit of some here.

Originally Posted by ddongbap

I am TOTALLY down for one of those Fiestas.

Have you driven a Ford lately, and more importantly, have you accompanied one to the dealership lately?

Gene

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by GeneW

I own a Honda, a 1990 CRX DX. 190,000 miles. Out of warranty.

Last time I changed the oil on it I managed to rip the engine temp sensor plug off of the temp sensor. Yeah, you have to have a hoist to change the oil on a CRX, or have very skinny arms. Honda put the oil filter in the center of the block, right under the intake manifold. Swell, I had to replace the sensor boot in the street in the middle of winter. Fun.

You see, Ddongdap, in order to change that filter I had to lean over the car, balancing myself on the fender, and reach around the intake manifold. I didn't quite make it.

I've also changed the alternator and the radiator.

To remove the alternator you need to remove the driver side wheel and the CV joint. Alternately you can remove part of the engine cooling system. The last time I changed it I had to hammer out the bottom mounting pin. Honda thoughtfully cadmium plated it to reduce rust but they did not savvy that bolts scuff, removing the cadmium. They also did not realize that the position of the alternator causes road spray to deposit onto the pin. The combination causes the pins to rust into place. I needed a two pound hammer and a drift pin to pound out the mounting pin.

During my search for parts I discovered that the CRX for that year used one of four different kinds of Nippon-Denso alternators. I could not find one and had to have the one I had rebuilt. This was the FOURTH ALTERNATOR that this car consumed during its life. Apparently Honda put the car so close to the edge with respect to its electrical requirements that the hatchback defrost eat alternators. Brilliant!

To remove the radiator on CRX models with AC it is necessary to remove the manifolds for the AC condenser. Some idiot at Honda decided to sandwich the radiator between the AC manifold and the condenser assembly. To remove the radiator the first thing you do is remove the R-12 refrigerant from the AC system. Brilliant! Then you have to partially remove the AC system to remove the radiator. Brilliant!

I also had the celebrated "Honda Starter Relay problem". Honda in the late 1980s used carbs. When they shifted to their first FI systems rather than use an integrated relay they put in an extra one, in the passenger compartment near the driver's left knee. Your friendly Chilton manual does not specify this so I partially ripped out the fuse assy looking for it. Finally found the damn thing behind the change drawer.

The Mashuta produced relays were defective and had annular (ring shaped) cracks in their solder. This problem produced a condition where the Honda would start cold, run fine but when you parked it for short periods of time would fail to start (the relay wouldn't work to turn on the fuel pump). I spent a year dicking with it. Finally discovered an online article, removed the relay and reflowed the solder. Before I knew that this was the cause I had had to replace various electronic and hydraulic parts - I did not understand the problem you see.


Oh, no, Dongdap, I'm not quite finished yet. I saved the best for last.

Every 100,000 miles you have to change the timing belt. To change the timing belt in a Honda of that vintage your first remove the exhaust manifold, then you detach various hoses, wires and other stuff. Then supporting the motor you remove the engine mounts and "Float" the motor. Brilliant!

Float the motor means that it sits atop a conveyance, at an angle, where you can access the crankshaft pulley, which requires removing and replacing a bolt that needs 200 ft pounds of torque.

I'm not finished yet.... then you remove the valve cover, the timing chain cover, and the alternator and AC belts.

While you've got this mess apart you remove the water pump, remove the timing belt, and hopefully you were wise enough to get new timing belt tensioners to replace the old ones.

If the camshaft assembly seals have failed you have to replace them, HOPEFULLY the camshaft does not have a score in it from the previous seal. Otherwise you remove the head and take it down too, replacing perhaps the head and camshaft assy.

Put the blasted thing back together, making sure that align it properly. Otherwise you'll damage the valves as the DOHC 1.5 liter motor is an "interference fit" motor. If you do it all right you get about 100,000 miles more running time.

F--k Honda Motor Corp and their stupid parts placement. I work in manufacturing and know how to build things. You do not put parts that routinely fail into places where they cannot be removed easily. That pisses off customers.


The Toyota Yaris uses a timing chain, mounts the oil filter in the front of the motor, mounts the alternator on the top of the motor, mounts the radiator where it too can breathe. Plenty of room with which to work.

The nicest part is that while the car is hardly perfect it is quite reliable.

I have a good reason to be prejudiced against the Honda FIT. I think it's high time that I took some photos for the benefit of some here.




Have you driven a Ford lately, and more importantly, have you accompanied one to the dealership lately?

Gene

I'm gonna be honest. I skipped the entire humbug after the first quote.

And to retort about the Ford part. The Fiesta was designed and built and w/e in Europe. Which, AFAIK, runs independently (for the most part anyway) from their US counterpart. So they're not as bad. Mbenz is horrid in Europe.

Even those Aussies get a badass i6 turbo engine by Ford.



Btw, I sorta skimmed through that.
1) its ONE car.
2) you could have just bought a brand new engine.

So okay, you're from the east coast, and you're pretty one sided. Is it safe to assume all people from your area is one sided? Even though most people probably had model or rebuilds in the last 10 years?

[kargoboy]

I am not knocking Hondas, they are a very good car, but
here's just one comparative description that strikes me as the typical Honda bias:

The Yaris gets "decent mileage" - 35 mpg highway
but the Fit has "great fuel economy" - 35 mpg highway

LOL.

[ChinoCharles]

It is also notable that our members tend to report numbers much better than the claimed 35 MPG.

[ddongbap]

Originally Posted by kargoboy

I am not knocking Hondas, they are a very good car, but
here's just one comparative description that strikes me as the typical Honda bias:

The Yaris gets "decent mileage" - 35 mpg highway
but the Fit has "great fuel economy" - 35 mpg highway

LOL.

Lies. OBVIOUSLY 35 is more than 35, what kind of math did YOU learn?