increasing sound insulation?

[mhkritzinger]

Originally Posted by swidd

The rubber stuff: yes, spray it on the inside of the wheel wells, on the metal thin surfaces that cover the tires (I spray the plastic parts and suspension too, but I'm not doing it right). Be careful not to spray on the exterior paint, but hold the can far enough away to get a nice spread. Shake the can very hard for the specified time - otherwise you just get paint and glue and no rubber. Use rubber gloves or hold the can with a trash bag; it gets messy.

The difference between dynamat and b-quiet or peel and seal is not appreciable. The material is essentially the same, short of a few m.m. difference in thickness. As your stuff will be way cheaper, you can just do double layer in the middle sections of the surfaces you cover. It has nothing to do with the material really - dynamat for $600 isn't magic or superior - it is all about adding mass to prevent the sheet metal from vibrating, while getting a good glue that will permanently stick even in rain, sun, winter and extremes of either. Use a roller to press the stuff into edges and get a good stick. I think good results are more about patient and thoughtful install than thickness of the material. If you want it even more quiet, get foam, like a foam mattress, and stuff it into the door frames.

thanx for all your help! I appreciate it allot! When it comes to the thickness of the material does it really make a difference or at what kind of thickness should i look at and what thickness will be sufficient?

Another question i got is i heard about you must add a barrier and people uses mass loaded vinyl(MLV) for the barrier but you don't get stuff like that in South Africa. Is their any alternative to that?
sry for all the questions but you can't give me any pointers on where is the best places to put the material and any advice on the placement will be welcome?
I also read about this peal and seal stuff can get smelly when the temperature goes up in your car?? Is that why you said i should not buy an asphalt one?

Thanx allot so far!!

[swidd]

Originally Posted by mhkritzinger

thanx for all your help! I appreciate it allot! When it comes to the thickness of the material does it really make a difference or at what kind of thickness should i look at and what thickness will be sufficient?

Another question i got is i heard about you must add a barrier and people uses mass loaded vinyl(MLV) for the barrier but you don't get stuff like that in South Africa. Is their any alternative to that?
sry for all the questions but you can't give me any pointers on where is the best places to put the material and any advice on the placement will be welcome?
I also read about this peal and seal stuff can get smelly when the temperature goes up in your car?? Is that why you said i should not buy an asphalt one?

Thanx allot so far!!

The foam mattress is the alternative to the MLV. I believe they put MLV mostly on the floor because it has very strong vibrations from the motor and such. You can stop the sound by stopping the thin metal from vibrating, or you can dampen the sound that gets through by using a cheap old foam mattress or specialized acoustic foam (which is the same; its just different size cells in the closed cell foam). You can also buy closed cell foam or carpet padding from Home Depot,
http://www.homedepot.com/Decor/h_d1/...0053&cs=503089 (hopefully in larger pieces than this)
or
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1&ddkey=Search ($105 for 270 sq ft = cheaper than a cheap mattress!).

Don't buy material based on the thickness. If you tap on the metal surface you can hear how much "hollowness" there is, i.e. you tap your door and it sounds like a tin can. Slam the door shut and you'll hear it echoing in the metal cavity inside.
Apply one layer and you'll hear a much more drowned out sound, like hitting a large bucket full of water. Apply another layer, or just one piece in the middle of the door, and it will not resonate or make any sound at all... it'll be like tapping a brick wall. Only one layer of B-Quiet made a huge and immediate difference. Apply more layers as you feel is needed.
I went with mostly one layer with up to three layers in some center spots, and it is enough to satisfy me (closing the door sounds like on a Mercedes - just a damp solid sound). Driving by other cars I usually can't hear them unless they are trailers or motorcycles (a vast improvement to before). If I was doing it again, I would go with the peal and seal and more old used foam mattresses. Sound dampening shouldn't cost hundreds of dollars; all it takes is adding weight to the thin metal spots on the car.

I haven't used peel and seal myself, but what I've heard from one guy who used it is it had no smell whatsoever, and was the exact equivalent to my B-Quiet. I believe the asphalt smell may be something affecting only older roof sealing products, as no home buyer want's the smell of asphalt emanating through their walls. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053 - it describes it as "25-mil polyethylene-backed aggressive rubberized adhesive membrane", whereas Dynamat (http://dynamat.com/products_automoti...at_xtreme.html) describes itself as "patented, light-weight, elastomeric, butyl and aluminum constrained-layer vibrational damper.". Translation: rubber. With glue. With backing. It is astonishing that Dynamat advertises "light-weight" on a product designed to ADD weight to a surface. I doubt their aluminum backing is more lightweight than the polyethylene backing on P&S.

The thickness of Peel and seal is "25-mil", which converts to 0.63 millimeters.
Dynamat Extreme is "67-mil", or 1.7 millimeters thick.
B-Quiet is "60-mil", or 1.6 millimeters thick.

The following comparison shows that Dynamat is good, but not superior, to B-Quiet: http://www.b-quiet.com/compare.html. Its basically a wash.

However look at the prices:

Ebay:
Dynamat $300 72sq ft bulk pack + 36 sq ft for $200 = $500 or $4.6/sqft.
B-Quiet $140 50 sq ft * 2 = $240 or $2.40/sqft.
Home Depot:
Peel & Seal $20 9 inch X 33 ft = 25 sq ft * 4 = $80 or $0.80/sqft.

I, and another forum member, used 100 sq ft. That included multiple double layers and is not the "surface area" of the car. Even if peel and seal is half the thickness, and you'll want to generously double layer it, you'll end up using around that much.

Easy places to put it (short of everywhere...lol):

Rip off your door covers, place it all over the sheet metal that makes up the skin of the door, with at least two layers in the center of the door. Get behind the speaker, up behind the door handle and behind the window. I used spray glue to place large pieces of foam all over the inside of the door, just making sure the window can roll up and down. The foam just being there dampens any sound waves traveling through, thus eliminating "hollow echo" sounds. If you will be covering the inside as well, just cut holes for the door lock wires and go at it (using large pieces cut to fit).

Rip off the rear seat side covers (where the rear speaker is), and place it all over the side body. This is the worst location for sounds getting into the hatch, as it is a HUGE area of thin metal that resonates severely and makes it sound like driving an open car. I also put foam in here, simply placing (not gluing) it everywhere. Fill'er up!

Rear hatch: I think there's like two plastic clips to remove, then rip off the rear hatch cover. Apply material everywhere behind the windshield wiper motor, until tapping the rear door sounds totally solid.

Your hood: on the inside, above the engine. This may be ill advice if your material may melt or not stand up to heat. B-Quiet is holding up nicely after ~1.5 years for me.

Rear cargo area: rip out the cover and the plastic boxes on either side, and remove spare wheel etc. Under the spare wheel there is a massive thin metal area, add layers until you can knock it without hearing metal sounds...


Possibly more difficult:

Front foot wells and driver/passenger floor. You can simply rip the carpet to the side (remove door sill moldings) and apply material on the floor and front firewall area as you are able to access. You'll get maybe 50% of the important places. Multiple layers or something heavy can be useful. I used two-three layers of B-Quiet + three layers of just regular thin audio carpet (mostly for softness for my feet).
+To do this area better, remove the center console (one bolt behind driver's armrest/by your elbow when driving, then remove gear knob and boot, lift up from behind (mind the center switch panel with the audio jack etc), lift over the gear handle (un-snapping two clips on the front)), then remove front seats (wrench and a very strong arm required; disconnect air-bag connectors). The one-piece carpet can now be rolled all the way back to the rear seats, and you can apply material to the thin metal surrounding the gear handle linkage. I applied more material to this area after "finishing" the first time, and found that a lot of motor sound comes in through this center section in front of and on the side of the gear handle.
Under the front seats; the section immediately underneath the seats, where the floor jack is, is very thin and vibrates. In the pictures above, and on most posted pictures of sound deadening projects, every bit is covered, including the beams and bars that are solid metal. I covered them too, but only single layer. Seeing as no amount of rubber is going to prevent those pieces from vibrating if they really want to... it is a waste. The solid metal pieces on the car do not resonate. The two bars I'm talking about are the one's the seat is attaching to.

Rear foot wells/floor: A small area of thin metal here. You can access it only by doing the front seat removal and rolling the carpet all the way back.

Under the rear seat - I wouldn't do this area again if I re-did it. The metal here is solid as a rock, and no thin metal is used here (its top of the gas tank). You can save yourself a lot of work by not removing the rear seat. If you did the rear foot wells up as far as you could to the mounts for the rear seat, you've covered most of the thin metal. I suppose if you want to eliminate everything, you'll do this too, however the biggest difference will come from doing the rear hatch door and under the spare wheel.

Excessively difficult:

The roof: ...requires removing the A-pillar, B-pillar and rear hatch pillar cover, the roof cover simply rests on top of those covers. The rear pillar covers can only be removed after taking out all the other side plastic covers, so you can pretty much only do this with all the seats out and a full strip-down. The good news is you can also do your rear wheel wells if you strip everything out, but rubberizing it with the spray on the outside probably achieves the same sound dampening (use 4 cans for the whole car - excess is good if your rubberized painting spray is cheap).


--------------------

EDIT:
Trying to figure the mass of the Peel and Seal... 4.5 lbs/25 sq ft = 0.18 lbs/sqft.
B-Quiet is 0.35 lbs/sqft and Dynamat is 0.45 lbs/sqft.

This is just my opinion, but reading about the Peel and Seal, I think it may be the superior choice for another reason: the glue. Above all else, you'll want material that grabs on to the metal and will never lose or let go.

Tape can be installed and left exposed for up to 120 days without UV degradation
Only flashing tape to pass hurricane level wind-driven rain test ASTM E331-90
Most aggressive adhesive on the market
Self seals around nails and screws
Adheres to plywood, OSB, foam, metal, aluminum, and masonry

Must be some glue to hold on to masonry!

------

I've heard people say they get cuts from Dynamat; I got black gluey rubber stains all over my fingers and hands (and subsequently face) from applying B-quiet. I suppose getting some disposable gloves may be smart.

[mhkritzinger]

Hello!! Just want to thank everyone who gave me some info on this!! Thanx allot you guys helped me allot!!

Got some damplifier pro for good price so i am gonna receive it in 4 days! Excited to apply and hear the difference!!