Something that just PISSES me off...

[slothman86]

Good info on this thread. Ethanol pisses me off too!

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by chrisj

So there is a conspiracy, then? I see lots of those idiot Tahoes on the road that say FlexFuel, so because GM can't make their cars last as long as Toyotas, they're gonna Ethanol/FlexFuel our little cars to death? :(

I believe that the US cars need to make cars that can be purchased as fleet cars for government use. The Federal govt. now only buys cars that can take the flex fuel.

I haven't seen any foreign cars that take flex fuel....and they can't be purchased for most US govt fleets so I think...believe...that is one of the reasons for so many flex fuel vehicles by US makers.

As for recent US cars....the government bought GM and Mopar so that is just political correctness being used with our tax money to support a failed technology. You will pay your taxes to support the purchase of these companies....more in corn prices to pay for limited corn supplies.

Thanks to our government for messing up two things!

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by Darb

The primary issue is that the amount of petroleum products used to make fertilizer (via Haber-bosch process) for cornfields grossly outweighs the amount of petroleum saved using ethanol.

Personally, I won't be completely happy until we have an improved infrastructure for all-electric cars and a bigger shift away from coal-fueled power plants.

I agree....but how would you do that? It takes too long to recharge a car and if you are on a long trip, it wouldn't be practical. Also, 95% of the fleet in the US is fossil fuel. It would take 10 to 15 years to refresh that fleet with electric.

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by why?

That will never happen. The oil companies have far too much power, and switching to electric cars that might actually make sense would cost trillions.

And we should be using coal more, it is a heck of a lot better using something we have tons of rather than importing anything from somewhere else.

Ethanol from corn will always be crap.

I keep hearing about alternative sources...i.e., algae, that is much better and more plentiful.

Using corn drives up the price of corn. Also, not all corn is for human consumption. Some of it is for other purposes, like feed corn.

[birdman]

We need to get off petroleum. Creating Ethanol has a similar carbon foot print as gasoline when you start from when the plants are young absorbing petroleum fertilizers and then all the steps from fermentation to finish product. The US government knows that switching over to electric is inevitable and could happen now but as long as they can con Americans on fuel that has oil mixed into it the more money for the oil companies. It's the same with (clean?)diesel and hybrids. These are just another way of prolonging oil. The future is in electric cars. It is inevitable and is happening in Israel right now. Renault/Nissan is selling an affordable mid sized sedan for Europe where Gas stations will keep charged batteries that exchange with the ones in your car in about 3 minutes if you need to extend your range. These cars are affordable unlike the Volt we have here now. The US oil companies lobbyists are slowing our change over to affordable electric as long as they can.

[RedRide]

Let's not forget that gasoline is a by product of refining crude. It was considerd almost useless until the IC engine was invented. A car does not consume petroleom, it just uses its by product.
So, as long as we have any need for refining crude there will always be gas to use.

Weening ourselves off oil is a political myth.
The very best we can do is try to use less petroleom and use all its products more wisely.

Having said that, I think the future lies in developing more efficient gas powered cars/engines and alternate power/engine/motor/fuel technologys.
Anyone who has what seems like a good idea (either real or percieved) will get a piece of the economic pie, it's inevitable.

[TLyttle]

Right, RedRide; weaning ourselves off oil is a myth, but not impossible. Recently I have been experimenting with wood as an alternative in as many spaces as possible, ie, I built a wood car instead of fiberglass, a wood pedal car instead of a blow-molded POS from China, even a simple garbage container instead of the plastic nasty from Wally World. Even my rust-ridden 245 isn't immune from my tablesaw terrors: I replaced the rear floor with 1/8 ply and 1x2 frame, far lighter, and plenty strong. Next are the rotten panels around the rear wheels, using birch ply and fir framing, properly finished.

I looked long and hard at electric vehicles, but found that I could nearly double the FE of a chassis by building it from wood: lighter, quieter, and stronger. My next challenge will be a completely wood electric car; not that hard, and certainly no challenge to the Big Three, but as efficient as what most sensible people require...

[daf62757]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Let's not forget that gasoline is a by product of refining crude. It was considerd almost useless until the IC engine was invented. A car does not consume petroleom, it just uses its by product.
So, as long as we have any need for refining crude there will always be gas to use.

Weening ourselves off oil is a political myth.
The very best we can do is try to use less petroleom and use all its products more wisely.

Having said that, I think the future lies in developing more efficient gas powered cars/engines and alternate power/engine/motor/fuel technologys.
Anyone who has what seems like a good idea (either real or percieved) will get a piece of the economic pie, it's inevitable.

Well said.