Our Shoot First Law

[sqcomp]

I'll tell you what, if someone is willing to bring me or my family harm, whether that be in my home or car...

Be prepared to meet your maker. I don't need a gun. I will be happy to be judged by twelve instead of carried by six.

[Sir A.Y. Atoyot]

Golly gee, what a bunch of tough guys!

For myself, I would cheerfully watch someone shred my Yaris into tiny pieces rather than have that person's life on my conscience.

[detroiter]

I live 20 minutes from the Detroit-Windsor border. I spend quite alot of time in Windsor and it truely is like what you say ChrisJ, a massive difference, seperated literally
by a river.

I always have admired and admittingly a bit jealous when I look at Windsor from the Detroit side, how nice and clean it is over there. And people are ACTIVE! Tons of people running along the waterfront and enjoying hanging out eating lunch, etc.

When I'm in Windsor and look at Detroit, it's like a ghost town except for the homeless that live in Hart Plaza. The city looks like a hell hole, aftermath of a mass exodus.


Detroit is a whole another world though compared to Windsor or Ontario, criminally speaking. I hate talking about Detroit in negative light because their truely is alot of nice things in and around the metro area, but alot of the city itself should be nuked off the map.

In a place like Detroit, thank God that gun and weapon laws are allowed. Because you know what happens when they take away weapons from the people? Criminals don't play by the rules, so who do you think still does have weapons? If guns and weapons were banned here, criminals would run rampant because they know 9 out of 10 people don't have a single thing to fight back with. I myself carry a knife on me and would never, ever use it to hurt someone or intimidate them with it. But it's there incase I need it, God forbid. People can do what they want but I'd rather be safe than sorry.


If I recall correctly, some places like Texas even have open carry laws. Meaning, you'll see people walking down the street
or in a store with a revolver/pistol on their hips or shoulder in plain sight. That would kind of weird me out because Michigan
doesn't have that, just CCW types of laws.

[detroiter]

Beer and Hockey are a part of Canadian heritage, it's greatly respected
in Michigan :D lol (seriously though, I don't drink but you guys have REAL beer, not watered down crap)

Really though, are all weapons banned in Canada like swords, knives, etc
or is it just handguns?

One law that I really disagree with here is the ban on gravity weapons ( like butterfly
knives for instance). A one knife can do just as much damage as any other, but that
one gets banned just because it "looks bad" and is "intimidating". In all honesty, they are much safer to use/carry than a conventional one because the blade locks into the handle, greatly lessening the chance of it opening in your pocket and potentionally making you walk a bit funny after you stab yourself lol.

I believe they were legal for about 4 years back in the early to mid 80's, guess they were imported by the hoards but
then the ban was back up. You can still get your hands on butterfly knives but the laws are strange. Something along
the lines of the knives cannot be shipped by regular mail and they cannot be imported while being completely built.
So some people get around it by ordering and importing seperate parts like the blades, handles, etc and then
put it all together when it gets here. Or theirs some companies here that make them themselves.

I myself would love to get my hands on a true balisong from the Phillipines. One handcrafted from water
caribou horn or some guava/kamagong inlays.



If you want crazy weapons restriction laws, all you have to do is take a look at the UK. I think I'm more scared of
being there than I would anywhere else. I can't even recall all of the new stories about random stabbings for no
reason, just someone walking down the street behind someone and then shanking them then booking it out of there.
That happens commonly as far as I know, very scary!

[why?]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

I'll tell you what, if someone is willing to bring me or my family harm, whether that be in my home or car...

Be prepared to meet your maker. I don't need a gun. I will be happy to be judged by twelve instead of carried by six.

I agree completely.

Originally Posted by Sir A.Y. Atoyot

Golly gee, what a bunch of tough guys!

For myself, I would cheerfully watch someone shred my Yaris into tiny pieces rather than have that person's life on my conscience.

I dare you to tell all the world you are a pacifist by posting a huge sign in your front lawn.

Originally Posted by detroiter

I live 20 minutes from the Detroit-Windsor border. I spend quite alot of time in Windsor and it truely is like what you say ChrisJ, a massive difference, seperated literally
by a river.

I always have admired and admittingly a bit jealous when I look at Windsor from the Detroit side, how nice and clean it is over there. And people are ACTIVE! Tons of people running along the waterfront and enjoying hanging out eating lunch, etc.

When I'm in Windsor and look at Detroit, it's like a ghost town except for the homeless that live in Hart Plaza. The city looks like a hell hole, aftermath of a mass exodus.


Detroit is a whole another world though compared to Windsor or Ontario, criminally speaking. I hate talking about Detroit in negative light because their truely is alot of nice things in and around the metro area, but alot of the city itself should be nuked off the map.

In a place like Detroit, thank God that gun and weapon laws are allowed. Because you know what happens when they take away weapons from the people? Criminals don't play by the rules, so who do you think still does have weapons? If guns and weapons were banned here, criminals would run rampant because they know 9 out of 10 people don't have a single thing to fight back with. I myself carry a knife on me and would never, ever use it to hurt someone or intimidate them with it. But it's there incase I need it, God forbid. People can do what they want but I'd rather be safe than sorry.


If I recall correctly, some places like Texas even have open carry laws. Meaning, you'll see people walking down the street
or in a store with a revolver/pistol on their hips or shoulder in plain sight. That would kind of weird me out because Michigan
doesn't have that, just CCW types of laws.

Arizona is the only state where true open carry of pretty much anything is legal, quite a few other states allow holster carrying of handguns, which is really very different than open carry.

[Sir A.Y. Atoyot]

Originally Posted by why?

........I dare you to tell all the world you are a pacifist by posting a huge sign in your front lawn.........

Who said anything about pacifism? A car is just a thing. I wouldn't kill a fellow human simply to protect a thing. If someone were attacking me or my family, though, I'd do what I could to defend us.

[.Kevin.]

One rule- you dont fuck with a mans car.

[big lo]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

As I understand the castle doctrine, it applies to an immediate threat IN your home. Just because you've got some yahoo prowling around your yard doesn't give you the right to kill him...

...that's why I'd unlock the door and wait 'till the eFr steps foot inside the door. Two shots. Bang! "Stop or I'll shoot!" Bang! Just to make sure I popped his mellon.

...now, how to set up one of my favorite .308 platforms at the front door...



(testing for function and familiarity) - the 5th SF group are a great bunch of hooligans! I'd follow them to the gates of hell and back.



^the 5th's ISOF "off duty" shirts. It'd prolly look bad if you were wearing one of these after popping someone breaking into your home.

Nuff respect to you brother!!!

[why?]

Originally Posted by Sir A.Y. Atoyot

Who said anything about pacifism? A car is just a thing. I wouldn't kill a fellow human simply to protect a thing. If someone were attacking me or my family, though, I'd do what I could to defend us.

sorry but I just don't buy that. Sitting and watching someone destroy your property is pacifism. It is sad. I'd rather die defending my property then sit and watch someone destroy it. As far as I am concerned once a person starts committing crimes they stop qualifying as a human, and become an animal to be slaughtered.

[detroiter]

It's people that sit back and don't do anything that encourage criminals to more often try taking advantage of people.

Similar to governments that try to take advantage of it's people. You give them an inch, they'll take a foot.

Best way I can summerize is in the example of, when we were little kids, we all did something that we shouldn't have. And we did it many times, until we got caught and got our butts spanked. We didn't do it ever again because we knew what would happen.

[Black Yaris]

Originally Posted by TLyttle

Really, you guys are amazing. SHOOT someone? For ANY reason? Man, it makes me glad I live in Canada. We just beat back the NRA's attempt to Americanise our gun laws. The only handguns in Canada are the ones illegally imported from the US, and that is a good thing. We don't need guns to protect ourselves here, we educate our kids that killing people is wrong, wrong, wrong.

So when one of those illegal guns from the US walks though your front door in the hand of a criminal that wants to rob, rape and/or kill, what is your defense? You would be fucked. Do I wish to shoot someone? Never, but if I were in fear for my life or my wife's I would not hesitate to fire. Killing for the sake of killing is wrong, but killing in defense to a threat to your life is self defense.

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by why?

As far as I am concerned once a person starts committing crimes they stop qualifying as a human, and become an animal to be slaughtered.

Surely this is a relative stance! I mean, should a child who steals a pack of gum be considered an animal fit to be slaughtered?

It's one thing to beat the living crap out of someone messing with your stuff, it's entirely different to kill someone for it. Stuff can be replaced, that's why you insure your valuables.

I just don't think it's reasonable to use deadly force unless your life/safety is directly threatened.

There was a situation that happened in my town earlier this year where some drunken student coming home one night actually went to the wrong house and tried to get in the back door. He was shot and killed by the home owner. Completely understandable as the homeowner had no idea who was trying to get in the back door, but it just goes to show that knee jerk reactions can sometimes have really sad outcomes.

[tomato]

Originally Posted by djct_watt

I thought the California law was that you could only shoot (in your home) under threat of imminent harm. But I thought that if they just want to take your stuff, you have no right to fire? I'm not to sure if I'm right or wrong on this one though. . .

I believe you're right. Since I don't have a gun on the premises, I never really looked that up.

We had an antique gun around for a while but that doesn't count. I don't think the thing could fire if it wanted to.

I just don't think it's reasonable to use deadly force unless your life/safety is directly threatened.
.

+1

[MadMax]

Originally Posted by Altitude

There was a situation that happened in my town earlier this year where some drunken student coming home one night actually went to the wrong house and tried to get in the back door. He was shot and killed by the home owner. Completely understandable as the homeowner had no idea who was trying to get in the back door, but it just goes to show that knee jerk reactions can sometimes have really sad outcomes.

That's a good example, albeit a tragic one. Should the homeowner be expected to determine the intent of the intruder? To what point? Waking up to someone breaking down a door in the middle of the night is traumatic enough, expecting them to inquire as to the intent of the person doing it is not realistic. The ultimate fault lies with the drunken student, and there is nothing to say he didn't decide to commit a burglary or other nefarious activity in his intoxicated state...

As for our Canadian friends who believe the only firearms in their country are illegal ones brought in from the US, you really live in a dream world. Nearly 22% of Canadian households had at least one firearm, including 2.3% of households possessing a handgun; according to the RCMP. Additionally, it has been estimated that as many as five million gun-owning Canadians have not registered their firearms (not that as of the 2006 census, Canada had a population of 31 million residents).

But violent crime has been on the decline in that country since 1993; but did you ever stop to consider that it might be all those unlicensed firearms deterring criminals as well?!?

Cheers! M2

[TLyttle]

Well, Black Yaris, I suppose that is a possibility alright. However, let me make a couple of points: Up here in Canada, we are taught that stuff belongs ot other people and that just because it is available does not mean it is free for the taking. Poor education and lousy courts make for people unable to learn this point.

Except for the firing range, I have only heard gunfire once here, and never where I lived before, Vancouver. Unlike the US, guns are frowned upon here, and the use of guns draws very heavy penalties. I have never felt the need to protect my stuff nor my family, never in my life as a Canadian. I wish I could say the same for the US: gunfire in LA was a nightly occurrence, weekly in rural Arizona! Why? Why is it necessary to use firearms, or even carry firearms? Who is responsible for these people who use them for nefarious purposes? Think about it for awhile, and you will find that you yourselves have built this scenario, and that is why it all stops at the US border. After you have thought long and hard, you will see that it is the education system, and the media, responsible for your ongoing paranoia. Why would anyone use Clint Eastwood or John Wayne as an icon for acceptable behaviour? No other ecivilised country has such a bizarre attitude towards such violence!

[chrisj]

^ Unfortunately there is a little cowboy in us all. Ingrained as we are kids with all those calming cop shows!

[detroiter]

Now I understand why it's always America first who protects everyone else...

[firebob]

Some of you’ll are lucky. In VA you have to let them make it in side your house and have to be “scared for you life” before you can shoot them.

From what I have been told it’s better to kill the person and not leave them living and injured.