S/C owners: collecting information

[LtNoogie]

It still has the effect of cooling the intake air charge. You start cooler so your compressed charge is cooler. Here's an interesting article on a homemade water injection system.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

[eTiMaGo]

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

It still has the effect of cooling the intake air charge. You start cooler so your compressed charge is cooler. Here's an interesting article on a homemade water injection system.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

very most interesting! Basically on our engines that's be using the vacuum line from the PCV system or brake booster, but the only problem I can think off, at full throttle, you don't have much of a vacuum, so there won't be so much flow through the tube and the water injection would be greatly reduced when you would actually want it most... So really I think you'd want to have a small aquarium pump or something to ensure a steady flow...

[Nexus1155]

30 degrees of ignition out of boost? and thats where the problem exits, your probably misfiring and knocking. I don't think you should be hitting those high of values like that...

I'm only running around 20-23 where it would be out of boost if i was on a yaris and this is on a 4.2L truck that can take a few more degrees.

http://i39.tinypic.com/vx0l6x.jpg

[PETERPOOP]

Originally Posted by kurokoma-kun

My ignition timing:
at idle ~5
out of boost ~30 (AFR 14s-15s)
under low boost ~15 (AFR 14s-15s)
at wot ~10, rarely + briefly single digits (AFR 11s-12s)

Originally Posted by camelll

I see single digits on timing anytime under boost regardless of a/f ratio. The only time I see above single digits is out of boost. If I am above single digits during boost it is real low teens. Out of boost and normal driving I see 30's + on timing and without boost getting on it I see high teens to low 20's.

Max boost is 8.

my IGN is 17 under WOT with AFR of 13-14
my IGN is 25-30 w/ NO boost & normal driving w/ AFR of 14.5-15.1
My IGN is 15 when under low boost and AFR is 14.5-15.1
My IGN is 5 when coasting/neutral with AFR of 15

*All of my numbers of IGN and AFR seem to match with your guys, besides my IGN under WOT. I am seeing 17 IGN timing and not the low teens like you guys..

Is that safe? Is that why I am generating "more" power?

Here's a link to a thread I made about it last night with a video clip of my gauge readings from above..

http://yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16720

[PETERPOOP]

Well I put my stock airbox on, and I'm getting readings of 11-12 at WOT (during open loop). You hear that Noogie?

However, this is only at Open loop. Open loop takes a few to open once I initially hit the gass hard. So during that time I am running hard and it's not open loop yet, I am still seeing numbers of 14-15. However, once in Open loop, I saw 11-12. My IGN timing was still at 17. Not low teens like everyone else said they were getting. So are those proper numbers oppossed to other people now because I am running that IGN timing with 11-12 AFR? Is it safe to have 17 IGN timing now that I am getting 11-12 during open loop?

No time to do driving tonight (homework), but tomorrow I will get more numbers.

[Nexus1155]

wellll more fuel will counter act high spark, but just by putting the stock airbox you limited the air that much to change the AFR by 2 points? These cars are screwy as helllll. Go drive some more and bring back some more data lol...

[cali yaris]

^ I think he's onto something. Looks like MAYBE the intake set up makes a difference with respect to the tune that Blitz intended.

[PETERPOOP]

The stock airbox DEFINATELY made a change in my AFR and I guess it's a testament of how much air the aFe intake really takes in. I am curious to know what intakes each blitz owner is using. It's hard to believe that the aFe intake would make so much of a difference compared to other aftermarket intakes. However, the numbers don't lie.

I hope noogie is inspired to swap back to his stock airbox too, and we can confirm this.

Definately will have more of a variety of A/F readings in the next couple of days.

[LtNoogie]

I guess this is where iterative tweeking and dyno testing is the right way to tune if one could afford it. Bringing the AFR back to a safe range is not the end goal. The end goal should be to maximize power while staying in a safe operating zone.

Peter is enrichening his mixture at WOT by limiting airflow slightly. Peter, what was your ignition timing under WOT before you put on the stock airbox? If timing was lower than 17, you may have increased your power while at the same time moved yourself into a safer zone. If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

I am going to try the opposite tack. In order to enrichen my mixture at WOT, I am going to try to dump more fuel into the charge by trying larger injectors (thanks Garm). I'm trying to collect as much data as I can with my logger before changing to the larger injectors.

It's really cool that we have enough S/C'd owners that we can try different approaches.

[PETERPOOP]

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

Peter is enrichening his mixture at WOT by limiting airflow slightly. Peter, what was your ignition timing under WOT before you put on the stock airbox? If timing was lower than 17, you may have increased your power while at the same time moved yourself into a safer zone. If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

Like I said in my update post (like 4 posts before this), my IGN timing is the same now as it was with the aFe intake at WOT. My IGN timing is 17 at WOT (open loop) now and it was 17 with the aFe. The only difference now is that I have 11-12 AFR with the stock airbox, and when I had the aFe on, I had 13-14 AFR.

I'm still not sure if I am any safer now even though I have 11-12 AFR, but still the 17 IGN timing. Anyone know? Because the majority of the blitz owners who run 11-12 AFR, have low teens or single digit IGN numbers. However, I do not.

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

If you can get your WOT AFR into the 11 - 13 range, your dyno guys shouldn't be afraid to give you your last two dyno pulls.

IT IS in the 11-12 range. That's the reason for my update. However, my question was, is it ok if I am running 17 IGN timing with the 11-12 AFR.

Originally Posted by LtNoogie

Bringing the AFR back to a safe range is not the end goal. The end goal should be to maximize power while staying in a safe operating zone.

For now, it is for me. However, I can promise I will eventually get the greddy emanage ultimate/larger injectors/larger throttle body/aFe intake and tune it accordingly for maximum HP with ideal AFR.

[TOUGEghost]

Those new AFR numbers with the stock intake look much better. Is that 17* peak? What does the whole timing curve look like? It may be the best you can do anyway until you have a way to actually make adjustments to the fuel and timing maps (e-mangae, injectors, etc. like you mentioned). I know a 4G63 isn't the same engine but the tuning principles are similar; I run 21* peak timing WOT open loop at full boost with a target AFR of about 11.1

[PETERPOOP]

The 17 is not peak. I think it might go to 18-19 too. Well from your response, I'll take it that the 17 IGN timing area is safe and actually good!

I believe it's not possible to adjust IGN timing. Not sure though...

More numbers coming tomorrow!

[TOUGEghost]

If it runs smooth and doesn't knock, it should be ok. I usually advance timing 1* at a time until the power curve flattens out or I start to get knock.

[Nexus1155]

Question... did the blitz install say to change out the air intake? I mean you have to consider the ecu senses air coming into the engine and tries to compensate for it...

Its like trying to suck air in through your mouth or air in through a straw..... One has a large area to gather in volume and one has only a small hole.....

For whoever is getting crap AFR on your blitz kit, i urge you to try what Peter did, 11-12 is ideal for a SC and fueling(safe) i doubt hell have any more problems if this is the case...

[LtNoogie]

I could probably approximate a stock air box by taping off part of my aFe filter. That's a quick and dirty way of limiting airflow without doing the whole airbox thing.

[kurokoma-kun]

I'm not seeing the lean condition, I only had the knocking issue.

My intake/exhaust system starts with AEM cai, then header, midpipe, axleback. I guess this is why my results are different

[kurokoma-kun]

My AFR is 13-15 under boost (closed loop), 11s-12s at wot (open loop)

[kurokoma-kun]

I see what you mean. But I guess as I've gone full throttle I've been focusing on the a/f gauge rather than the scangauge, and not seeing anything to indicate lean condition as it transitions to open loop...

Could it just be the scangauge lagging behind? For example when I take my foot off the gas, it takes at least a couple seconds before showing open loop for DFCO.

Guess I really need to take some videos too, its too many gauges to study in detail while driving