An Open Letter to YarisBueller and VitzBoy

[tk-421]

Hello YarisBueller and VitzBoy,

First of all, I want to thank you for bringing such a great site to the internet. I log on every day, and I don't really do that with any other site (besides GMail I guess). I have enjoyed spending time on this site for a few years now.

That said, I have been concerned with how the forums have been riddled with spam lately, as well as how some new members have been treated. This kind of negativity got even worse after the hack a few months ago.

I know first-hand how hard it is to maintain a site of this size, especially when one has little extra free time to do it. On the other hand, I have witnessed how sites that are much larger than YW end up being taken down because the people in charge are just... not there. Of course, I don't mean any disrespect. I'm sure you guys have very valid reasons for this, and I don't even want to speculate as to why this is the case.

What I do want to say is that some very valuable members have decided to leave YW because of this, and that has lead to lower-quality material being posted on the forums. And things don't seem to be improving either: I already know of at least 2 new Yaris-related forums that have been created by current and ex-YW members that are just fed up with how these forums have been handled. This kind of fragmentation can be detrimental to the survival of any site.

I have been thinking long and hard as to what could be the best way to deal with these issues once and for all, and after communicating with many fellow members off-site, I have reached a decision to write this letter as a genuine effort to bring YW back to what it originally was 3 years ago: A site with many friendly and knowledgeable members that are always there to lend a hand to anybody that needs it. A site where Yaris fans can be themselves without other members stomping on their every thread. A site that is constantly being updated with fresh, valuable, Yaris-focused content.

We all wish for YW to retain its leadership. But actions speak louder than words. YW truly needs care and attention, not just from its members and moderators (who by the way are awesome for the most part), but especially from their admins, who are really the people behind the wheel, so to speak.

I think YW would benefit greatly by just making a few modifications here and there, such as:

1. Adding moderators from more varied geographical locations
This would help on many fronts: For one, some mods can take over while the others are sleeping (or working, or having a life). Secondly, it would really help in making this site a YarisWORLD by encouraging members from other countries (and languages) to join in. Lastly, it is a lot easier to deal with spam at different times.

2. A way to reward members that offer valuable, original information
This is SORELY needed IMO. Post numbers are inaccurate and overrated. A way to tell who actually knows something by looking at their "rep level" would be both helpful to noobs and encouraging to those members to continue delivering helpful advice.

3. Build a WIKI
This is something that I proposed a looong time ago, and it apparently fell on deaf ears. We've all seen how asking people to "do a search" is not always enough for them to actually find something of value. Why? Because there's just too much information buried between lots and lots of useless (and often duplicate) babble. A wiki solves this problem by providing a centralized page with nothing but useful information. This could be even better if wiki contributors got "rep points" for their efforts as well (see point 2 above).

These are only a few examples that would surely benefit everyone with minimal intervention from the admins' part. I am sure other members have great ideas that could be implemented just as easily by you guys. And of course if you don't have the time, there's a few web designers roaming around the forums that would surely do it for you (myself included).

Thank you for giving me the time to voice my concerns. I really hope you don't take this letter as anything other than an open hand from myself to improve the site. Let's make YW all it can possibly be, while at the same time maintaining its status as the #1 Yaris-related site on the internet.

[Shroomster]

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM


- rep levels get abused too easily. I think instead of that it would be better for there to be medals/logos handed out by the mods/admin (voted on by the forum itself) that are placed in the members profile or quick glance on the side of the post.


like suspension guru etc.

- moderators yeah we need them, have the current mods done everything they can?

hell yes. but seriously it's up to the Admins to make the call for more mods and frankly I know I've asked a few times for more moderators, and pretty much got no response.



Don't take this the wrong way, this is a free site; you get what you pay for.

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by Shroomster

CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM


- rep levels get abused too easily. I think instead of that it would be better for there to be medals/logos handed out by the mods/admin (voted on by the forum itself) that are placed in the members profile or quick glance on the side of the post.


like suspension guru etc.

Although I agree that the ideal way to hand out rep levels would be via the mods/admins, I'm not sure if they would be able (or even willing) to vote on countless members individually. I think they already have their hands full as it is.

- moderators yeah we need them, have the current mods done everything they can?

hell yes. but seriously it's up to the Admins to make the call for more mods and frankly I know I've asked a few times for more moderators, and pretty much got no response.

I agree with this, and I believe it's the FIRST thing that needs to change. We need admins (and some mods) to step up to the plate and voice an opinion!

Don't take this the wrong way, this is a free site; you get what you pay for.

It is free, yes... But it is also a very valuable resource! How much money have each of us saved by reading some of those great DIY threads alone?

Heck, I'm actually willing to donate some money every now and then if that will ensure that at least some of these concerns get addressed quickly enough... And I'm pretty sure some other members would too if given the chance.

[1NZYaris1]

Stepping up
This may be a free site , but we and i hope this correct , are here because
of a varity of reason's not least to meat people , and to help out others -wheather it be good or bad advice.
Also to share our passion and sometimes hate for the Yaris

Not to abuse people like what has happened in the past.
if you can't say somthing nice (ie not abussive) then don't post a response and leave the thread .

I have too totally agree with you TK , we need more Mod's and i think
you are on the right track in saying they need to from different time Zones (countries )
Spam will always be hard to control , but it does need to be Done .
and the more Mod's the better i say
This is a complement to our current Mod's , they are doing an awsome job , considering they don't get paid .
and they do have a life .


muddled as it is, that is my thoughts.

[eTiMaGo]

Thanks for putting this up, TK, I think it addresses a lot of unsaid things.

It is no secret that YW's not the place it used to be 3,2 or even 1 year ago. One could say that everything that could be talked about the car has already been said, but that's not quite true, there's always some new aspect to be discovered.

So yes, I agree that something needs to be done. Yes, we already have a handful of moderators who are doing what they can to keep this place under control. But, we have no real leadership, nobody to really look up to, to make hard decisions and make real changes.

1) More moderators, sure, spam is annoying but not quite life-or-death-omfg-delete-it-now-or-we-all-die important. The problem is we don't have any kind of agreed-upon rules laying down what is acceptable behavior and what is not. No amount of new mods is gonna change that. There again, we need leadership, it's not like we own the place.

2) Rep level, I dunno, can be abused to easily... Though I have seen on some other forums a "thanks" button, so if someone posts something informative, it will add to their "thanks" tally, far more informative than post counts and can't be abused like with a rep system

3) Agreed, a central knowledgebase with all DIYs, technical info, minimal comments, and so on, would be real useful

But, none of this can happen without the involvement of our founders, they hold the keys, literally. And no amount of pleading or reasoning seems to have an effect, so we're stuck.

[tk-421]

Thanks for your support, Ray!
YW could use more members like you, buddy.

Just one thing: At least meet people first before you try meating them!

Originally Posted by 1NZYaris1

This may be a free site , but we and i hope this correct , are here because of a varity of reason's not least to meat people , and to help out others -wheather it be good or bad advice.

[1NZYaris1]

Doh , me bad , you sore straight through me

[tomato]

I'm relatively new here but i'll throw in my 2 c. Compared to some other sites, the SPAM is really not that bad here. I mean, it's handled pretty quickly, so whoever is cleaning it up needs a bit of recognition

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by eTiMaGo

Thanks for putting this up, TK, I think it addresses a lot of unsaid things.

Thanks Thomas!

2) Rep level, I dunno, can be abused to easily... Though I have seen on some other forums a "thanks" button, so if someone posts something informative, it will add to their "thanks" tally, far more informative than post counts and can't be abused like with a rep system

I think that would be perfect! A good example of this used to be UbuntuForums, but it looks like they removed it for some reason

[tk-421]

Originally Posted by tomato

I'm relatively new here but i'll throw in my 2 c. Compared to some other sites, the SPAM is really not that bad here. I mean, it's handled pretty quickly, so whoever is cleaning it up needs a bit of recognition

Definitely. Those guys are awesome!
I think a PayPal tip jar should be set up just for the mods.

[47_MasoN_47]

The rep level stuff, as others have mentioned, often is abused or simply turned into a "popularity contest". The Ubuntu forums used to have one of those thanks systems but ultimately abandoned it because it was abused also. Things like that are always hard to maintain on forums, as why most large forums don't have them. Take the Xbox-Scene forums for example, there are over 400,000 members there, but everyone pretty much knows the knowledgeable people just because of what they have accomplished. IMO, the best way to show you are knowledgeable is to post helpful, informative topics. Link them in your signature so that people can find them easily, post replies often and in a courteous informative manner. I'm not trying to bash your idea, but generally the people who are truly helpful and would deserve the reputation/thanks aren't easy to find. I've only been here a few weeks and I've already picked out several people that I consider helpful and definitely know what they are talking about. Most of the time you end up with members of low-moderate quality focusing primarily on gathering rep/thanks (for whatever reason) instead of actually being helpful.

I don't hang around here all hours of the day, or for very long each day, but I don't notice a lot of spam in the main few threads I post in (mostly the technical forums).

I haven't been here long enough to know what's going on with the moderators, other than apparently there is a lack of them.

[cali yaris]

^ If everyone used this for spam and offensive posts, and there won't be any problem.

the main problem here is (1) lack of Admin presence and (2) lack of clear instructions/guidelines for the members.

Neither of which will change soon, I think. It is what it is.

[mrbond]

I think I agree most with #3, since spam is quickly gotten rid of and doesn't affect other threads. Plus, when I need to find something I looked at, say, a month ago, it starts to become a monumental pain in the ass. As for rep levels, I think it's a great idea since it's found on like Civic forums and NASIOC and all that. However, as it's been stated before, it CAN be abused. If there is a way to properly monitor and administer rep levels, then I'm all for it. Thank you, TK.

[ChinoCharles]

-facepalm-

[TheRealEnth]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

-facepalm-

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I've asked YB about a Spam mod crew (if you may), but never received a response. I've been here for quite some time, and lurked for a few months before buying my Yaris, and I can really say that it has changed. The environment seems like it has gotten more hostile, and the Spam is crazy some times. But this is why we have mods, to try to keep things in order. I believe I talked to Thomas about having mods in different time zones, but forgot what he said (LOL, sorry Thomas).

I also believe that some of the hostility towards new members is because they ask questions that have been long answered. I, for one, don't mind this. Yes, sure, they can use the search function, but I'm going to assume that some may not see it. It also refreshes some topics for the new people. hehehe.

[TheRealEnth]

Thats why we need the A) WIKI IDEA or B) Really good Sticky Thread

[tuckevalastin]

I don't know why people get so offended by new members asking questions that have been answered before.

Some of the hostile answers that these people get makes me wonder how many new members actually bother staying.

If you don't want to answer something that you think has already been answered why not just ignore the thread all together. There are members who will happily answer and won't have to yell about the search button.

If you drive away all the new members the site will become dormant because there won't be anyone bringing in new ideas. The biggest problem I've ever seen here (other than the hack) is the bad attitude towards new members. I don't know if placing emphasis on being an old member will make this any better.