Serious Autocrossers?

[mikenacarato]

well they classed me with all of that...so im in the right class as far as im concerned. there was a day when a regional technician (i guess thats what you would call him) came to one of our events and was classing the members. He looked at everything and even noted i didnt have an airbag and put me in FSP. he did mention something about since the bars were not welded in and were removeable, i could be in this class. im not going to argue with him.

[Yaris-x]

I Have worked in sales at a toyota dealer for 2.5 years and the TRD Rear sway bar is able to be installed by toyota pre-dealer (Port installed) Lowering springs are only Dealer installed or I would have them too. I can produce the production codes if you don't believe me. The rule book specifically says Port installed options are the same as Factory installed options.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by anonymous user

Why, b/c it's a toyota? I plan to get one in the near future, if i can find one.

1. because it's mid engined.
2. because it's lightweight and makes decent torque
3. because it's a toyota
4. because it's different. everyone and their mother (or gay father) has a miata. Mazda flooded the market while toyota capped production numbers.. when the miata is worth 500 dollars, the MR2's will still be worth 2000 .

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Yaris-x

I Have worked in sales at a toyota dealer for 2.5 years and the TRD Rear sway bar is able to be installed by toyota pre-dealer (Port installed) Lowering springs are only Dealer installed or I would have them too. I can produce the production codes if you don't believe me. The rule book specifically says Port installed options are the same as Factory installed options.

i think you better start producing these rules from the SCCA 2009 rule book then

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by mikenacarato

well they classed me with all of that...so im in the right class as far as im concerned. there was a day when a regional technician (i guess thats what you would call him) came to one of our events and was classing the members. He looked at everything and even noted i didnt have an airbag and put me in FSP. he did mention something about since the bars were not welded in and were removeable, i could be in this class. im not going to argue with him.

what's beating you in FSP ?

[mikenacarato]

theres only 2 other cars in fsp. 1 miata and 1 wrx, its always a tossup between us

[Yaris-x]

TRD Rear sway bar Production code HR

2009 SCCA SOLO Rules
12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been
ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and
delivered through a dealer in the United States. Port-installed options
provided by the factory are considered to be the same as
those installed on the factory production line. Dealer-installed options
or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter
how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition.
This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts.

[ozmdd]

SCCA National Solo Rules 2009
13.7 ANTI-ROLL (SWAY) BARS
A. For front anti-roll (sway) bars:
1. Substitution, addition or removal of any front anti-roll bars is
permitted.
2. Substitution, addition or removal of anti-roll bars may serve
no other purpose than that of an anti-roll bar.
3. The use of any bushing material is permitted.
4. No modification to the body, frame or other components to
accommodate anti-roll bar addition or substitution is allowed,
except for the drilling of holes for mounting bolts. Nonstandard
lateral members which connect between the brackets
for the bar are not permitted.
B. Rear anti-roll (sway) bars may not be removed, replaced, or
modified in any way.

From Section 13 "Stock"
Alternate parts listed in a factory parts manual are not authorized unless their use is specifically referenced in the factory service
manual or in a service bulletin for the specific model

Please show me the "port option exception" as it only exists in the Solo rules when it pertains to specific vehicles that have been listed in the "Stock Class Clarifications" section in the appendix. There isn't one for the Yaris, but the ones that do exist are items that MUST APPEAR ON THE WINDOW STICKER (not the dealer's add-on sticker.) EX. The WRX allows the port-added CF dash overlay, boost gauge and armrest.

[ozmdd]

Originally Posted by Yaris-x

TRD Rear sway bar Production code HR

2009 SCCA SOLO Rules
12.4 STANDARD PART
An item of standard or optional equipment that could have been
ordered with the car, installed on the factory production line, and
delivered through a dealer in the United States. Port-installed options
provided by the factory are considered to be the same as
those installed on the factory production line. Dealer-installed options
or deletions (except as required by factory directives), no matter
how common or what their origin, are not included in this definition.
This definition does not allow the updating or backdating of parts.

You just made my point. There is no factory-provided part here. Again, read the quote in blue in the above post. There is no such thing as a factory-installed rear sway bar on a US Yaris. The rule you quote clearly states that a factory-available part can ALSO be installed at the port instead of the actual factory and still be considered "standard."

[Yaris-x]

TRD is toyota toyota will install the toyota Rear sway bar at NY PORT and it would appear on the toyota build sheet as (PPO-HR TRD Rear Sway bar)

[ozmdd]

Again, you can't ignore the part of the rule that says that the option must be a factory option. This is not. Since you work at the dealer, show me the factory-option rear sway. And no, TRD is not Toyota. Not to SCCA. They have another section that refers to manufacturer-supported performance division parts. And that section ain't in "Stock."

Lets see your build sheet. Even if the rear sway was factory-available, the burden-of-proof would be on you to show that the part was legal. And you would have to have every other part available in that package, and the same year-model vehicle.
You can't cherry-pick the rule book.
Again, don't you want to win your trophy fair-and-square? Its not worth bragging about if you won it wrongly. Even Andy Hollis gave-up his title last year when he realized his motor wasn't 100% legal, by no fault of his own, and nobody would have ever realized it.
Integrity is what makes the sport fun. As good as you drive, you should still be able to place in ST, or run your events w/o the sway bar and class-illegal wheels.

[ozmdd]

Of course, you could also announce your non-complying mods to the other drivers in your class and ask for an exception. The you're legit. Lotsa people do that. I ran my Miata w/ an automatic radiator (metal) instead of the plastic one that comes in manual trannys and just told my competitors. They didn't care that I had an extra 4 pounds on my car, and I was legit.

I suspect that if you told your competitors about your changes, they might not feel it was fair. Maybe the wheels, but not the sway bar. I guess you could just ask them?

[Yaris-x]

Ok if you go to the dealer and buy a Yaris in "A" category and it still hasn't hit American soil. You can request that your yaris come in with a TRD Rear sway bar. When it hits NY PORT or whatever port your region receives yaris from it will go into a second assembly line state side where they will put on your Sway bar and Floor mats and whatever else toyota wants put on there. The Yaris will come into the dealer with the sway bar listed on the window sticker and if you print off the Vehicle inquiry then or 10 years from now in the Dealer Trac system it will list the Sway bar as an option on that vehicle. As for my wheels yes they are .5" too wide but they were approved by my regions solo chair and I do know if I went to compete in another region or at a higher event they may not pass but I am not running wider tires and I'm not even running slicks so I did so with the blessing of my regions SOLO chair.

[ozmdd]

Still not a factory item. Glad you did the right thing on the wheels. Good luck!

[kngrsll]

It would be nice to get a sticky with peoples set ups, how well they do, what events the do, so on. I know the normal set up here: springs, shocks, rear sway bar. I am actually experimenting with a new set up now.

The old mk1 VW Rabbits are the exact same layout as the yaris. Light, FWD hatcback with front strut suspension and rear twist beam. So we have a guy in our region who competes on the national level with his Rabbit, i thought i would ask what his set up is. The reason i wanted to ask was that i know that the VW twist beam guys have two major set ups, the same as our car: springs shocks rear sway bar, and another camp. This consists of big front bar, stiff rear springs (100-200 lbs more than the front), and no rear sway bar. So my idea is experiment and try this set up. So far, i have removed my rear bar, and added 6kg rear springs (350 lbs) to go with my front 3kg springs (175 lbs). the car drives different, but i cant quanitify it is better or not until i do some racing. it certainly feels different though.

the reasoning behind this set up: on the front suspension, you want to combat roll as much as you can to keep the front tires down. so a big front bar does that. in the rear, you want the bar to work as much as it is designed to do, keeping the rear tires down by the natural twist of the beam. but you need to maintain the balance front and rear so you increase the rear spring rates. this helps keep all 4 wheels in better contact with the contact surface. thats how it was explained to me by a VW guy. he also said the downside to a big rear bar is that it masks the problem by decreasing overall grip, while creating oversteer.

so anyways, that was my conversation, so i thought i would give it a try. if it works, cool, another option. if not, i can bolt all my old parts back on! I am going to do this setup without an LSD to start with, then with an LSD to see if that changes the situation.

so my new, final setup would be: custom front sway bar, no rear sway bar, 3kgF/6kgR springs, Tokico HTS's, and a 2 way TRD clutch LSD.

ill let ya guys know how it turns out.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by mikenacarato

theres only 2 other cars in fsp. 1 miata and 1 wrx, its always a tossup between us

neither car belongs in FSP

wow, your autocross club smokes a lot of crack lol

[ozmdd]

Interesting approach. The biggest difference I can see is that our chassis is much stiffer than the old VW's, so factor that in.
I can attest that the rear bar made a gigantic difference in handling and limiting roll, probably cut 2 seconds off my time on a 45 sec course.

I'd love to do the LSD, but it bumps me to an absurd class.
Keep us informed, and I'll update you after my new alignment this week.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Yaris-x

Ok if you go to the dealer and buy a Yaris in "A" category and it still hasn't hit American soil. You can request that your yaris come in with a TRD Rear sway bar. When it hits NY PORT or whatever port your region receives yaris from it will go into a second assembly line state side where they will put on your Sway bar and Floor mats and whatever else toyota wants put on there. The Yaris will come into the dealer with the sway bar listed on the window sticker and if you print off the Vehicle inquiry then or 10 years from now in the Dealer Trac system it will list the Sway bar as an option on that vehicle. As for my wheels yes they are .5" too wide but they were approved by my regions solo chair and I do know if I went to compete in another region or at a higher event they may not pass but I am not running wider tires and I'm not even running slicks so I did so with the blessing of my regions SOLO chair.

you're still missing the point.

if you order a swaybar with your yaris and it happens to get installed at the port, it is NOT a factory option.

the only port installed options that are legal are parts that can (AND WILL) be installed at the factory. in other words, you order a yaris with ABS, and the factory does not install it for you, but the port does. THAT is legal, because the factory DOES install ABS on a yaris. but the factory does NOT install rear swaybars, so it's not legal in stock class, no matter who installed it.

i wanna fly to NY just so i can contest you now