Ever tried removing the front swaybar?

[ddongbap]

They say, with stiff enough spring rates, technically kinda sorta don't need any sort of sway bar.

[Loren]

That's true, Ddongbap, I experimented with "no bars" on my Miata. It can be done, and I liked it except for the spring rates being on the verge of "harsh". But, as was mentioned very early in this thread, it's a love it or hate it thing. Some people prefer a softer-sprung setup with stiff swaybars. And there are merits to that setup for street driving.

"why?", (dumbest forum handle ever, btw), yes the harshness in my setup is very noticeable. Big bumps are awful, and bumps in turns (when the outside rear wheel is in the air) make all kinds of racket due to the spring having no tension on it at all. All could be addressed with some fine-tuning, maybe progressive springs, maybe some rubber spring perch seats, etc. But, as it is, my setup is a little annoying on the street. The handling is outstanding, though!

Best thing you can do is read more, get a better understanding of how things work, and experiment carefully.

[why?]

Originally Posted by Loren

"why?", (dumbest forum handle ever, btw

It does get the point across though. And when I ask the question, which is often, people understand.

So something tells me the reason that even most aftermarket kits have stiffer front springs then rear is the same reason auto manufacturers build in all that yucky understeer.

I do have lots to learn, and lots of setups to study.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Loren

Before I tell you how well it worked... raise your hand if you think autocrossing without a front swaybar sounds goofy.

it sounds goofy, unless you've upgraded your front spring rates beyond the stock Ksport availability.

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by SailDesign

Without even reading the rest of the thread, I know it works, if you're the right person. A fellow called Richard Shine has a tuning shop up in New England, and he has been removing the front bars from VWs for years. Some love it, some hate it, but either way it works. More power available to the driven wheel.

Shine is responsible for a lot of flipped MKIV's..

selling super-soft spring rates and telling kids to remove their front bar (and run R comps) = quite a few nasty accidents.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by why?

So something tells me the reason that even most aftermarket kits have stiffer front springs then rear is the same reason auto manufacturers build in all that yucky understeer.

That (built-in understeer for safety) is part of it, but ride quality is also a major factor. And, on the Yaris in particular, it's difficult to design a stiff rear spring setup that fits the stock spring perches, is as low as most people want it, works properly, and stays put without making clunky noises. I think that's the biggest reason you'll see most Yaris kits use a softer rear spring.

[ddongbap]

I've heard of stock height cars with Rcomps flip on turns.

[Loren]

Originally Posted by ddongbap

I've heard of stock height cars with Rcomps flip on turns.

It's been known to happen.

All it takes is a softly sprung top-heavy car and an overly aggressive driver. Slam the car into a turn (or get goofy in a slalom) and the car will almost instantly rock over onto the bump stop. With street tires, hitting the bump stop that hard is usually enough of a jolt to make the tire slide. With race tires, it won't be. Yank the car hard enough and the outside tires will stick, allowing the momentum of the weight of the car to toss the car onto its roof.

[MUSKOKA800]

Nice video Loren,
It akes me back to the bleachers at Mosport in the 80's when the showroom stock Honda series ran before many big league series (F1, Cart, etc). The fast guys would have the inside rear tire 12-18" in the air rounding the high-speed corners. Quite amusing to those of us not familiar with FWD racing.