Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > In Car Entertainment + Electronics (audio / video / alarm)
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2009, 08:06 PM   #1
talnlnky
Audio Junky
 
talnlnky's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 liftback
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 1,412
Send a message via AIM to talnlnky
Sub Box Desgin

So... SQ comp, here's some graphs to show what I was talking about in that other thread.

I've got 3 Graphs:
1) Tangband W8-740C 8" - Shows the frequency response of ported vs sealed boxes
2) Exodus Audio Shiva X 12" - Shows the effect of box design on group delay
3) Exodus Audio Shiva X 12" - Shows the effect of power & box design vs mechanical cone movement

Looking at the pics... Red line = Sealed box, Yellow = middle tuned ported box, Blue = low tuned ported box.

1st Graph (Frequency response)
The sealed box (red line) is your reference, it will sound "tight" but won't be very strong down low.... with the cabin gain of a car it will have a near flat frequency response.

The yellow line shows a peak around 42hz, this is basically your average DECENT street beater setup. It will hit those killer low bass notes with authority, but might start to sound a bit sloppy. Like I said in the other post, eaggerated spikes in frequency response gives the illusion of sloppy sound. This yellow line only has a +3dB peak/bump... which isn't too bad. The really sloppy systems you hear often times will be tuned even higher, and would have a 6dB or higher peak in the response graph. The box for the yellow line was tuned to 39hz, its not uncommon for those sloppy systems to be tuned around 40-45hz.

2nd Graph (GROUP DELAY BABY!!!)
Sealed box (red) is still the refrence point. This would work decent in both HT and Car audio setups... small box too.

The yellow line is your basic street beater setup once again. This time it has a 6dB bump in the freq response... rap listeners would LOVE this setup.
The group delay really helps give you an idea how sloppy/tight it will sound. The sealed box is the reference, and pretty much optimal at all frequencies. The yellow line is actually fine until it drops below 60hz... The peak from 30hz to 60hz is generally where most of your bass in most rap & pop will be centered, and unfortunately will most likely sound a bit sloppy. The weird thing is.... once you get below 30hz.... it becomes very hard to tell the difference in group delay.

The blue line is actually basically what i'm running in my HT. It is virtually the same as the sealed box until it dips below 30hz. Yes, it does spike pretty high, 34ms, but it peaks at 15hz....NOBODY CAN HEAR A 15hz TONE... Human hearing range AT BEST is 20hz-20,000hz. You feel 15hz tones, you don't hear them. Going back to the idea that below 30hz, group delay differences are hard to hear, you can see that this HT setup actually is only at 10ms at 30hz... which is hardly higher than the sealed setup.

3rd graph (Cone movement)
This just helps show one of the biggest SQ & possibly safety advantages of ported boxes over sealed boxes. This sub can move 27mm each way, so the graph you see shows if 500watts of power will cause the sub will run into high levels of distortion, or even possibly start to physically tear itself apart due to moving too far mechanically.

Sealed box - sealed boxes do a VERY good job and controlling cone movement, they are the easiest, and generally safest boxes to work with because its hard to mess things up.

Yellow box - The street beater setup actually will be safe, and have low distortion down to 19hz... for cars, this perfect.... almost NO music plays anything below 30hz. What you have to be careful about is cranking up the bass while playing bass cd's like Bass Mechanic or sine sweeps.
For playing most music, including bass heavy rap, this setup will actually have lower distortion and be safer mechanically than the sealed box.


Blue box - HT setup again, the blue box design has a crazy amount of bass more than the sealed setup (6dB at 20hz more), and actually moves about 2mm less at 20hz. Basically, this setup will move the same amount as the sealed box setup except at 18-21hz and below 16hz. Its well suited for HT setups where DVD's often will play down to 20hz... or even sometimes into single digit frequencies. Unfortunately... it can't take the full 500watts below 16hz.

ported boxes are great at controlling cone movement if you design them with that in mind.

ok... if there are questions... let them fly.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg freqresponse.jpg (87.2 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg groupdelay.jpg (95.9 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg conemovement.jpg (103.3 KB, 141 views)
__________________
talnlnky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 08:49 PM   #2
Slick
 
Slick's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 3-Dr
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 616
Send a message via MSN to Slick
Ha HAA!!! This thread is mine now

But out of curiosity, i've been some-what paying attention to yalls enclosure discussion, however, just to throw this out there, I believe the air space available outside of the box plays into cone movement and sound pressure. But idk, like I said, just stirrin the waters

Edit: the above does not have anything to do with amazing enclosure software. Which again, is amazing :)
Slick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 09:26 PM   #3
talnlnky
Audio Junky
 
talnlnky's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 liftback
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 1,412
Send a message via AIM to talnlnky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick View Post
Ha HAA!!! This thread is mine now

But out of curiosity, i've been some-what paying attention to yalls enclosure discussion, however, just to throw this out there, I believe the air space available outside of the box plays into cone movement and sound pressure. But idk, like I said, just stirrin the waters

Edit: the above does not have anything to do with amazing enclosure software. Which again, is amazing :)
yeah... the amount of air on both sides of the sub's cone will have an impact on the movement of the cone. This software is assuming that the air in front of the cone will be more than 10 times the value of the Speakers Vas (T/S Specs) or basically, an infinite volume.

the amount of air in front of the cone won't have much of an effect on the cone movement unless you put the sub box in a room slightly larger than the box it self.

One thing that you will notice, is that if you take a sub box and compare its frequency response in a car (especially a small one like a yaris) to that of a 100sq ft or larger room in a house is that there will be a better low end extension in the car.... this is known as cabin gain, and allows cars to get away with tuning boxes at a higher frequency without some of the consequences.

Go ahead and stir the waters.... i encourage it.
__________________
talnlnky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2009, 10:20 PM   #4
Slick
 
Slick's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 3-Dr
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 616
Send a message via MSN to Slick
Yeah, the volume of available air space in the Yaris is deff limited. Believe it or not, I have two RF P1 300w peak that will (used to) make your head hurt. I just lucked out with a box/sub combo that was magnified with the air space in the Yaris. I bet one 7-900 rms 15 would be deafening (spelling?) All things considered though, I bet the box would have to be fairly small to take advantage of the space. But again, idk.
Slick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2009, 09:37 PM   #5
yarix
 
yarix's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 Yaris Sedan S Red
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3
talnlnky, the box you have in your picture is nice. I assume the 8" speakers are matched, one being the driver and the other being the damper, right ? I see the tube is tuned. I also assume this is a folded tube design right ? I built a similar design in 1989 from an acoustics magazine (for home use). I remember I had to "load" the speakers (glue lead wire around the suspension) to drop their natural ressonance to 30Hz (I measured them at 39Hz from factory). This lowered the efficiency but made my simple speakers closer to professional ones. It was fun ! The tube response had a distinct peak at 27-28Hz and it's multiples. Even with this sound "coloring", the boxes were awasome ! Keep up the good work.
__________________
Yarix
yarix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2009, 01:45 AM   #6
talnlnky
Audio Junky
 
talnlnky's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 liftback
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Spokane, Wa
Posts: 1,412
Send a message via AIM to talnlnky
Quote:
Originally Posted by yarix View Post
talnlnky, the box you have in your picture is nice. I assume the 8" speakers are matched, one being the driver and the other being the damper, right ? I see the tube is tuned. I also assume this is a folded tube design right ? I built a similar design in 1989 from an acoustics magazine (for home use). I remember I had to "load" the speakers (glue lead wire around the suspension) to drop their natural ressonance to 30Hz (I measured them at 39Hz from factory). This lowered the efficiency but made my simple speakers closer to professional ones. It was fun ! The tube response had a distinct peak at 27-28Hz and it's multiples. Even with this sound "coloring", the boxes were awasome ! Keep up the good work.
never heard the term "tube" refered to a box design before... the vernacular that I am familiar with would be "slot ported". Also not exactly sure what you meant by "damper"... but subs are hooked up to an amp... its not a Passive Radiator setup if that's what you mean.
__________________
talnlnky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Custom Lift Back Hidden Sealed Woofer Box TinyGiant DIY / Maintenance / Service 42 04-15-2010 03:36 PM
RMS capabilities Slick In Car Entertainment + Electronics (audio / video / alarm) 31 08-21-2009 09:52 PM
Custom sub box for a sedan... Spades In Car Entertainment + Electronics (audio / video / alarm) 3 12-07-2008 06:42 PM
DIY: Custom Hidden Trunk Box (08 Yaris 3D) goku87 In Car Entertainment + Electronics (audio / video / alarm) 0 10-19-2008 05:43 PM
(3) 12" JL 12w3v2 in sealed Subzone Box! JustYYaris Items for Sale by private party 9 03-25-2007 11:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:00 PM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.