K&N Filters

[b_hickman11]

So we are back to what the actual purpose of a K&N drop-in filter is for. To save money by not having to buy replacement filters every 3000 miles which for me is 1 month. Air filter at my local dealer is $20 so that would cost me $240 a year just for air filters. The K&N was $40 and never needs to be replaced. Paid for it self in 2 months. If I keep the car for 5 years thats a savings of $1160 and I have 2 Yaris's so that would be $2320!!!

[YarisOwnersDad]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

So we are back to what the actual purpose of a K&N drop-in filter is for. To save money by not having to buy replacement filters every 3000 miles which for me is 1 month. Air filter at my local dealer is $20 so that would cost me $240 a year just for air filters. The K&N was $40 and never needs to be replaced. Paid for it self in 2 months. If I keep the car for 5 years thats a savings of $1160 and I have 2 Yaris's so that would be $2320!!!

Whoa, why in the world would you change paper air filters every 3000 miles? They are good for four or five times that many miles. Unless you drive in EXTREMELY dusty conditions.

Tom

[scape]

the maintenance schedule for the yaris is suggested at every 30k miles, I believe; however my rule of thumb for my used cars was 10k or 6k for dusty areas; the K&n is nice though, I've never owned one personally.

[toad]

k&n's are nice, i've had them on all my previous vehicles. haven't bought one yet for either yaris because i like to get them when i need to replace one first. they do pay for themselves after a couple changes, but depending on where you live and how many miles you drive that could be a few years! where they get you is the 'recharge kits'. they are always expensive! anyone know of a cheap substitute for these kits?

[b_hickman11]

$9.00 for the kit and they usually last me around 3-4 cleanings.

The roads around here are very dusty. We have oil wells and gas wells going up everywhere and those big trucks and salt water trucks are always tracking out dirt from the lease road onto the highway. We have also have not got any rain in over 2 months so they are even more dirty than normal. Plus the 32 mile road that I take to work everyday has been under construction for 2+ years and there is a constant white sand/dust from the white rock they are using that stays on the road.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

Don't remember exactly?? Thats not good for your argument. It could have had 200,000 miles on it and he had just got a brand new K&N filter and we blame ALL on the filter and nothing else? It could have been used as a pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track...or maybe it could have been used as a Cab or a rent car. But I guess it doesn't matter since All evidence points to the K&N

Nice selective reading. :) That sure was desperate reaching. Wow!

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

So we are back to what the actual purpose of a K&N drop-in filter is for. To save money by not having to buy replacement filters every 3000 miles which for me is 1 month. Air filter at my local dealer is $20 so that would cost me $240 a year just for air filters. The K&N was $40 and never needs to be replaced. Paid for it self in 2 months. If I keep the car for 5 years thats a savings of $1160 and I have 2 Yaris's so that would be $2320!!!

Every 3k miles!!!??? That applies to what, 1% of the drivers? And we're trying to ignore the fact that a big portion of K&N buyers ask about HP and MPG gains (they've always been marketed as a PERFORMANCE filter)...so their purpose for buying isn't just all about being able to clean and reuse.
You must think they're wonderful, a lot of people do, that's why they've sold so many and have such a good following. I'd imagine that they've got about 5% of the market (could be closer to 2-3% ??), but for one reason or another about 95% choose to buy Wix, OEM, Fram, etc, instead. Oh well.

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

$9.00 for the kit and they usually last me around 3-4 cleanings.

The roads around here are very dusty. We have oil wells and gas wells going up everywhere and those big trucks and salt water trucks are always tracking out dirt from the lease road onto the highway. We have also have not got any rain in over 2 months so they are even more dirty than normal. Plus the 32 mile road that I take to work everyday has been under construction for 2+ years and there is a constant white sand/dust from the white rock they are using that stays on the road.

Under those very dusty conditions not sure that a premium paper filter wouldn't be the wiser choice

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Nice selective reading. :) That sure was desperate reaching. Wow!

Well someone had to reach since you tried to make a claim and didn't have ANY information to back it up......

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Every 3k miles!!!??? That applies to what, 1% of the drivers? And we're trying to ignore the fact that a big portion of K&N buyers ask about HP and MPG gains (they've always been marketed as a PERFORMANCE filter)...so their purpose for buying isn't just all about being able to clean and reuse.
You must think they're wonderful, a lot of people do, that's why they've sold so many and have such a good following. I'd imagine that they've got about 5% of the market (could be closer to 2-3% ??), but for one reason or another about 95% choose to buy Wix, OEM, Fram, etc, instead. Oh well.



Under those very dusty conditions not sure that a premium paper filter wouldn't be the wiser choice

I didn't say it applied to ALL drivers. I said it applies to my situation. Did I say, "hey everyone on here needs to change their paper filters every 3000 miles?" No I don't remember saying that. The reason uneducated people think that ALL K&N filters have performance gains is because the first filters they come out with were for performance cars that already put out a lot of HP. And they did claim to give you more HP and THOSE filters did. Then many years down the road the developers decided to come up with reusable filters for your everyday driver.(Drop-ins) Because of their history of their performance filters people, like you, assume that the drop-ins will have the same effects that the performance filters and intake systems. Now they could have came out and said, "Our new filters do not provide as many benefits as our old filters," but I guess they thought that consumers, like you, were smarter than that.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

Well someone had to reach since you tried to make a claim and didn't have ANY information to back it up......

Yeah, let's see who's doing the reaching w/o any info to back it up


Me:

1stToyota
For example: customer with Avalon pulls in with engine performance issue and MIL on, checked code and data stream, needed at least 80% calculated engine load @ WOT, was way below that spec, MAF heated wires and temp probe were gunked up with sludged, cleaned MAF meter and installed WIX filter, cleared code and let customer test drive his car. He couldn't believe the new throttle response and wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed, and they come pre-oiled so if it was over-oiled it was done so at the factory; nothing else could have put that kind of oil build-up in the MAF meter so quickly, other than the non-paper element that was upstream a few inches.

I believed the customer because he was about 70 years old, driving an Avalon, believing the salesman that pushed the K&N filter on him because it'd get him about "10 to 20 percent improvement in fuel economy" ...and I've also seen lots of vehicles with blow-by and PCV problems during the last 26 years, this Avalon showed only signs of fresh, clean sludge build-up on the heated wires, no dirty engine oil anywhere in the air intake.

Don't remember exactly on the Avalon, sure wasn't a beater; fairly late model (I do rembember that it was OBDII) and appeared to be very well taken care of. Main thing about the Avalon was that the MIL was on, couldn't get above about 55% calculated engine load @ WOT on the datastream, and had fresh oil buildup on the sensor, not the typical gray/tan dry ash coating that I come across.

You:

B Hickman11
It could have had 200,000 miles on it and he had just got a brand new K&N filter and we blame ALL on the filter and nothing else? It could have been used as a pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track...or maybe it could have been used as a Cab or a rent car. But I guess it doesn't matter since All evidence points to the K&N

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

I didn't say it applied to ALL drivers. I said it applies to my situation. Did I say, "hey everyone on here needs to change their paper filters every 3000 miles?" No I don't remember saying that. The reason uneducated people think that ALL K&N filters have performance gains is because the first filters they come out with were for performance cars that already put out a lot of HP.

Wrong. It's because they didn't have MAF meters and computer feedback that outsmarted the extra airflow back then...you should have figured that out for yourself. And I don't think they're for performance and good savings at the pump, I've always said that's what others might think...I say they're a sound mod and they can be reused.

And they did claim to give you more HP and THOSE filters did.

They still push the performance claims...usually "3-5 hp gain" for drop-ins, yes?

Then many years down the road the developers decided to come up with reusable filters for your everyday driver.(Drop-ins) Because of their history of their performance filters people, like you, assume

YOU assumed wrong.

that the drop-ins will have the same effects that the performance filters and intake systems. Now they could have came out and said, "Our new filters do not provide as many benefits as our old filters," but I guess they thought that consumers, like you, were smarter than that.

A paper filter like Amsoil's Ea air filter, or a PureONE air filter will trap about 50x more dust (Amsoil's claim) than a shallow pleated, small square inched, oiled filter...and with your very dusty conditions you'd be able to figure that one out for yourself, or not.

BTW: LMAO, and to deflate the desperate little reaching again...I've got a K&N filter on the shelf for a Honda customer that's coming in next week...want to know what claims are on the box, in order which they appear?...it's a DROP-IN

"Designed to increase horsepower & acceleration"
"Washable/reusable/lifetime product"

Wooops

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Wrong. It's because they didn't have MAF meters and computer feedback that outsmarted the extra airflow back then...you should have figured that out for yourself. And I don't think they're for performance and good savings at the pump, I've always said that's what others might think...I say they're a sound mod and they can be reused.



They still push the performance claims...usually "3-5 hp gain" for drop-ins, yes?



YOU assumed wrong.



A paper filter like Amsoil's Ea air filter, or a PureONE air filter will trap about 50x more dust (Amsoil's claim) than a shallow pleated, small square inched, oiled filter...and with your very dusty conditions you'd be able to figure that one out for yourself, or not.

BTW: LMAO, and to deflate the desperate little reaching again...I've got a K&N filter on the shelf for a Honda customer that's coming in next week...want to know what claims are on the box, in order which they appear?...it's a DROP-IN

"Designed to increase horsepower & acceleration"
"Washable/reusable/lifetime product"

Wooops

This is Yaris World, not Hondalovers.com. Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!! They do have a cone air filter for the Yaris that they claim a 3-4 HP gain on but we are talking about the Yaris drop-in. Not Honda and not performance!

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Yeah, let's see who's doing the reaching w/o any info to back it up


Me:



You:

I already said I was the one having to reach since you didn't tell us any information on the car. It have been a 2009 model with 100 miles on it or it could have been a 2000 model with 500,000 miles on it. If it was an older car with more miles on it then there would be a lot more reason why his car was in that condition. If it was a new car with a K&N then your claim might have some backbone to it but since you can't remember, then your claim is useless.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

This is Yaris World, not Hondalovers.com. Where are they pushing the claim for the Yaris? If you go to the K&N website and look at the Yaris drop-in claims, you will notice that there are NONE!!! They do have a cone air filter for the Yaris that they claim a 3-4 HP gain on but we are talking about the Yaris drop-in. Not Honda and not performance!

Thanks, I was starting to think it was hickmansyogatime instead of yarisworld :sigh:

You're saying, right now, that K&N changes their box's sales pitch when it gets to the P/N for the Honda drop-in filter? I bet all their boxes look pretty much the same, where the text is concerned, whether it's a Honda, Kia, Toyota, Focus, etc....

For my '08 Yaris...right off they claim it's for performance, just like that Honda :)

http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...x?Prod=33-2360

Don't know where you're getting your info.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

I already said I was the one having to reach since you didn't tell us any information on the car. It have been a 2009 model with 100 miles on it or it could have been a 2000 model with 500,000 miles on it. If it was an older car with more miles on it then there would be a lot more reason why his car was in that condition. If it was a new car with a K&N then your claim might have some backbone to it but since you can't remember, then your claim is useless.

You didn't need to reach, just read what was written. I listed the condition of the car, described the owner, said that there was no engine oil depoits anywhere in the air intake system, that the deposit looked like fresh oil, not the ash deposit I normally see, etc...listed all that, probably why you snipped it again. Stay with the 3%, I'll stick with the other 97%...it's just what you need for your extremely dusty conditions. A UOA might just discover that your over-cleansed K&N is "useless"

[Zaphod]

While undoubtedly true, I wouldn't put too much weight on the percentages you're using, as most people simply don't change their own oil.

To apply a little common sense, if they're not changing their own oil, they're not changing their air filter either. And the people changing it for them aren't going to suggest switching to K&N filters because the time involved with cleaning them would be counter productive.

It's just about money with a consumable like that in this throwaway society. What do they charge you for that, 15$ a filter? And what does that filter cost them, $7? It's all part of the profit margin for the company changing the oil/air filter, not that I have anything against their profit margin.

My point is that those percentages are probably a bit off because the largest percentage of buyers of air filters are service shops.

Myself, I'm going to use a K&N filter for the Yaris as I already use one for the Harley. I've already got the oil for the filters, so it's just one less thing I have to buy when I perform my vehicle maintenance.

[1stToyota]

My 3% might be high? The % of DYIs can't be that much by comparision, and most probably don't get a K&N, probably get a Fram, Wix, etc...

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Thanks, I was starting to think it was hickmansyogatime instead of yarisworld :sigh:

You're saying, right now, that K&N changes their box's sales pitch when it gets to the P/N for the Honda drop-in filter? I bet all their boxes look pretty much the same, where the text is concerned, whether it's a Honda, Kia, Toyota, Focus, etc....

For my '08 Yaris...right off they claim it's for performance, just like that Honda :)

http://www.knfilters.com/search/prod...x?Prod=33-2360

Don't know where you're getting your info.

I went to your little link and I didn't see any numbers....Did you?