Extended cranking before starting - Toyota Yaris Forums

linny · 07-11-2013, 12:22 PM

I have an '08 liftback MT that's had this issue several months maybe close to a year. When turning the key to start The engine cranks several seconds before firing up. It does this most every time irregardless if its a cold engine or hot. Occasionally it fires right off.. The engine has no issues when running. There is no engine warning light or codes using a obd scan tool

To date I have
-replaced the battery upon finding it was marginal under a load test.
-replaced the spark plugs
-checked for and found no missing or damaged vacuum lines.

I'm hesitant to think this is an injector issue or fuel pump issue as the engine runs perfectly once it starts. I note that I do NOT hear the fuel pump kick in when I first turn the key to the 'on' position. I don't recall hearing it prior to this issue however. I have a fuel pressure tester but have not yet used it.

I was thinking this is an issue with one of the computer modules so I purchased the entire shop manual from Helm and now have the 30+ pounds of reference material. I started going through the troubleshooting guide in the manual and found reference to a 'techstream' tool. I've since looked these up and find them to be off the charts $$$$ wise..

I'm hopeful using a multimeter with a systematic approach will work in diagnosing this issue.

I found a couple past threads on here that seemed to be similar to the problem I'm having but there wasn't mention of resolution.. Has anyone had and then fixed this problem? I'd love to be able to narrow down my focus to figure this out. Thanks

Geoff Peace · 07-11-2013, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linny

I have an '08 liftback MT that's had this issue several months maybe close to a year. When turning the key to start The engine cranks several seconds before firing up. It does this most every time irregardless if its a cold engine or hot. Occasionally it fires right off.. The engine has no issues when running. There is no engine warning light or codes using a obd scan tool

To date I have
-replaced the battery upon finding it was marginal under a load test.
-replaced the spark plugs
-checked for and found no missing or damaged vacuum lines.

I'm hesitant to think this is an injector issue or fuel pump issue as the engine runs perfectly once it starts. I note that I do NOT hear the fuel pump kick in when I first turn the key to the 'on' position. I don't recall hearing it prior to this issue however. I have a fuel pressure tester but have not yet used it.

I was thinking this is an issue with one of the computer modules so I purchased the entire shop manual from Helm and now have the 30+ pounds of reference material. I started going through the troubleshooting guide in the manual and found reference to a 'techstream' tool. I've since looked these up and find them to be off the charts $$$$ wise..

I'm hopeful using a multimeter with a systematic approach will work in diagnosing this issue.

I found a couple past threads on here that seemed to be similar to the problem I'm having but there wasn't mention of resolution.. Has anyone had and then fixed this problem? I'd love to be able to narrow down my focus to figure this out. Thanks

There are several possibilities, the first step is to read the fault codes, that should give you a lead.
Regards Geoff Peace.

linny · 07-11-2013, 02:39 PM

There are no fault codes found by an OBD reader.

macz100 · 07-14-2013, 10:02 AM

i have an '09 3door AT , 71K miles . bought new , no issues since new , 2 weeks ago i started having similar problems as LINNY. replaced battery,spark plugs, checked for loose hoses , OBD11 with NO fault codes , runs great once it starts.
To be more specific it sounds as if timing is too advanced and will crank and almost stop or rotate in reverse and ping loudly. i have to rotate key to stop the engine . when i restart the engine with slightly longer cranking , the engine always starts fine.
i feel there is something wrong but cannot pinpoint the cause , any suggestions.???

UberSilver · 07-14-2013, 01:05 PM

My 08 once took 2~3 seconds to start, but never did that again.

Geoff Peace · 07-14-2013, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linny

There are no fault codes found by an OBD reader.

No fault codes would suggest that either the starter is not cranking the engine fast enough. Since you have fitted a new battery, check all the battery connections, particularly the earth to the engine and body. If the engine must crank fast enough for the crankshaft position sensor to send a signal to the ECU to switch on the fuel pump. A faulty starter motor could also cause this, as could a faulty fuel pump relay. These items need testing.
Regards Geoff Peace.

Flipper_1938 · 07-14-2013, 02:34 PM

Sounds like the fuel system is losing pressure when the car is off (fuel draining out of the lines).

If so, it is either an external fuel leak (gas on the ground) or an internal fuel leak (gas leaking past an injector into the motor or at the fuel pump's pressure regulator...gas draining back into the tank).

If it runs fine when running, my guess is that it is a small leak at the pressure regulator (small debris on check ball seat).

As long as it is not leaking gas on the ground, I would drive it as is. The OEM pump is probably better than the replacement part that they would use.

linny · 07-15-2013, 11:42 AM

Thanks Geoff and Flipper. The battery connections are good and the starter cranks the engine at a normal speed it just takes several seconds before the engine starts up. I have noticed no leaks of fuel but have occasionally smelled gas after fueling as I assume is normal. I will go through the procedure for checking the pressure regulator. I still plan on hooking my fuel pressure gauge up too. I wish there was a schreider valve on the fuel bar for this..
This weekend I went through the ECM and EFI wiring harness under the hood with my multimeter. I did find three resistance values that were questionable. The shop manual didn't make perfect sense to me on these tests however as it stated one value then an opposite value with a charge in the circuit. I plan on studying the manual as there are abbreviations and code galore that quickly gets me lost!! I plan on re-doing these checks.
This is going to take me a while. The number of circuits in these cars is mind numbing!
I can see where a 'techstream' would be really nice.
Thanks again. I'll update as I check more and appreciate others experience and advice.

linny · 07-15-2013, 11:56 AM

I'll check values on the crankshaft position sensor and opposite side camshaft sensor too. It would surely be nice to find a little sensor as the problem!

Sir A.Y. Atoyot · 07-15-2013, 10:23 PM

Sounds exactly like the symptoms my old car suffered - turned out to be the crank sensor working intermittently and not putting out a strong enough signal. That car was a Pontiac, but the symptoms sound just the same.

racerb · 07-15-2013, 10:34 PM

My 2010 Yaris does this from time to time also, but it never happen 2 or more times in a row. It seems to do it when the car has been driven for a while then left sitting for just a few minutes before re-starting. Hasn't done it in a while and didn't do it at all at the Auto-X this weekend.

racerb

ciscobear · 07-16-2013, 05:17 AM

Is it like this? http://youtu.be/w1vJ-WFDtDo

linny · 07-16-2013, 11:15 AM

Cisco, it is just like that!

Early on it was intermittent. Now it's rare to fire right off.

linny · 07-16-2013, 11:18 AM

Sir AY, I plan on testing the crank sensor. I hope to find it out of spec. That would be an easy swap.

ciscobear · 07-16-2013, 02:06 PM

Ctscott pointed me in the direction of the fuel pump but the car isn't mine so all I could do was recommend. The owner changed gas to our local Rubis and says she hasn't had the problem since, I am not sure what to make of it really. I was thinking along the lines of a sensor as well.

Flipper_1938 · 07-16-2013, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciscobear

Ctscott pointed me in the direction of the fuel pump but the car isn't mine so all I could do was recommend. The owner changed gas to our local Rubis and says she hasn't had the problem since, I am not sure what to make of it really. I was thinking along the lines of a sensor as well.

It makes sense to me. The new gas may have a detergent in it. It may have cleaned the injectors or fuel pump regulator...or whatever wasn't sealing off.

harda toenail · 07-16-2013, 04:07 PM

Mine sometimes does that if I immediately turn it off then back on again. Not every time but that causes it. It always starts though, just takes longer. My fz6r motorcycle did that same thing.

Sir A.Y. Atoyot · 07-16-2013, 06:33 PM

When my old car was doing this, it drove me nuts - generally happened only when the car was warm - when it was dead cold it always started. When it did run, it ran perfectly. I heard the gamut of opinions from various "experts" - everyone seemed to think it must be a fuel system problem or something in the computer. The solution was to finally break down and take it to a good garage. The mechanic there had an diagnostic analyzer that grabbed the code for the crank sensor right away. Once the crank sensor was changed, no more trouble. By that time, though, I was so sick of the car that I sent it to the crusher in return for a $2000 contribution to my Yaris purchase (govt program).

07-11-2013, 12:22 PM	#1
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Extended cranking before starting I have an '08 liftback MT that's had this issue several months maybe close to a year. When turning the key to start The engine cranks several seconds before firing up. It does this most every time irregardless if its a cold engine or hot. Occasionally it fires right off.. The engine has no issues when running. There is no engine warning light or codes using a obd scan tool To date I have -replaced the battery upon finding it was marginal under a load test. -replaced the spark plugs -checked for and found no missing or damaged vacuum lines. I'm hesitant to think this is an injector issue or fuel pump issue as the engine runs perfectly once it starts. I note that I do NOT hear the fuel pump kick in when I first turn the key to the 'on' position. I don't recall hearing it prior to this issue however. I have a fuel pressure tester but have not yet used it. I was thinking this is an issue with one of the computer modules so I purchased the entire shop manual from Helm and now have the 30+ pounds of reference material. I started going through the troubleshooting guide in the manual and found reference to a 'techstream' tool. I've since looked these up and find them to be off the charts $$$$ wise.. I'm hopeful using a multimeter with a systematic approach will work in diagnosing this issue. I found a couple past threads on here that seemed to be similar to the problem I'm having but there wasn't mention of resolution.. Has anyone had and then fixed this problem? I'd love to be able to narrow down my focus to figure this out. Thanks

07-14-2013, 01:05 PM	#5
UberSilver Drives: 08Yaris2D, 88LandCruiser. Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Alameda,Ca. Posts: 476	My 08 once took 2~3 seconds to start, but never did that again. __________________ Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Sell a man a fish, and you'll both eat for a day.

07-15-2013, 10:34 PM	#11
racerb View User's Garage Drives: 2010 Yaris HB Blazin' Blue Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Leland, NC Posts: 444	My 2010 Yaris does this from time to time also, but it never happen 2 or more times in a row. It seems to do it when the car has been driven for a while then left sitting for just a few minutes before re-starting. Hasn't done it in a while and didn't do it at all at the Auto-X this weekend. racerb __________________ racerb '86 Celica GT '87 Celica GT-S '98 Rav4L '01 Tundra SR5

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07-11-2013, 02:39 PM	#3
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	There are no fault codes found by an OBD reader.

07-14-2013, 10:02 AM	#4
macz100 Drives: yaris Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: newyork Posts: 5	i have an '09 3door AT , 71K miles . bought new , no issues since new , 2 weeks ago i started having similar problems as LINNY. replaced battery,spark plugs, checked for loose hoses , OBD11 with NO fault codes , runs great once it starts. To be more specific it sounds as if timing is too advanced and will crank and almost stop or rotate in reverse and ping loudly. i have to rotate key to stop the engine . when i restart the engine with slightly longer cranking , the engine always starts fine. i feel there is something wrong but cannot pinpoint the cause , any suggestions.???

07-14-2013, 02:34 PM	#7
Flipper_1938 Drives: 2010 Yaris Sedan Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 529	Sounds like the fuel system is losing pressure when the car is off (fuel draining out of the lines). If so, it is either an external fuel leak (gas on the ground) or an internal fuel leak (gas leaking past an injector into the motor or at the fuel pump's pressure regulator...gas draining back into the tank). If it runs fine when running, my guess is that it is a small leak at the pressure regulator (small debris on check ball seat). As long as it is not leaking gas on the ground, I would drive it as is. The OEM pump is probably better than the replacement part that they would use.

07-15-2013, 11:42 AM	#8
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Thanks Geoff and Flipper. The battery connections are good and the starter cranks the engine at a normal speed it just takes several seconds before the engine starts up. I have noticed no leaks of fuel but have occasionally smelled gas after fueling as I assume is normal. I will go through the procedure for checking the pressure regulator. I still plan on hooking my fuel pressure gauge up too. I wish there was a schreider valve on the fuel bar for this.. This weekend I went through the ECM and EFI wiring harness under the hood with my multimeter. I did find three resistance values that were questionable. The shop manual didn't make perfect sense to me on these tests however as it stated one value then an opposite value with a charge in the circuit. I plan on studying the manual as there are abbreviations and code galore that quickly gets me lost!! I plan on re-doing these checks. This is going to take me a while. The number of circuits in these cars is mind numbing! I can see where a 'techstream' would be really nice. Thanks again. I'll update as I check more and appreciate others experience and advice.

07-15-2013, 11:56 AM	#9
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	I'll check values on the crankshaft position sensor and opposite side camshaft sensor too. It would surely be nice to find a little sensor as the problem!

07-15-2013, 10:23 PM	#10
Sir A.Y. Atoyot Drives: '08 5-door Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Surrey, BC Canada Posts: 176	Sounds exactly like the symptoms my old car suffered - turned out to be the crank sensor working intermittently and not putting out a strong enough signal. That car was a Pontiac, but the symptoms sound just the same.

07-16-2013, 05:17 AM	#12
ciscobear Drives: Toyota Belta Join Date: May 2011 Location: Barbados Posts: 196	Is it like this? http://youtu.be/w1vJ-WFDtDo

07-16-2013, 11:15 AM	#13
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Cisco, it is just like that! Early on it was intermittent. Now it's rare to fire right off.

07-16-2013, 11:18 AM	#14
linny Drives: '08 liftback mt Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Mn Posts: 39	Sir AY, I plan on testing the crank sensor. I hope to find it out of spec. That would be an easy swap.

07-16-2013, 02:06 PM	#15
ciscobear Drives: Toyota Belta Join Date: May 2011 Location: Barbados Posts: 196	Ctscott pointed me in the direction of the fuel pump but the car isn't mine so all I could do was recommend. The owner changed gas to our local Rubis and says she hasn't had the problem since, I am not sure what to make of it really. I was thinking along the lines of a sensor as well.

07-16-2013, 04:07 PM	#17
harda toenail Drives: Want a yaris Join Date: May 2012 Location: SE Missouri Posts: 132	Mine sometimes does that if I immediately turn it off then back on again. Not every time but that causes it. It always starts though, just takes longer. My fz6r motorcycle did that same thing.

07-16-2013, 06:33 PM	#18
Sir A.Y. Atoyot Drives: '08 5-door Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Surrey, BC Canada Posts: 176	When my old car was doing this, it drove me nuts - generally happened only when the car was warm - when it was dead cold it always started. When it did run, it ran perfectly. I heard the gamut of opinions from various "experts" - everyone seemed to think it must be a fuel system problem or something in the computer. The solution was to finally break down and take it to a good garage. The mechanic there had an diagnostic analyzer that grabbed the code for the crank sensor right away. Once the crank sensor was changed, no more trouble. By that time, though, I was so sick of the car that I sent it to the crusher in return for a $2000 contribution to my Yaris purchase (govt program).