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Old 12-14-2018, 11:47 AM   #1
firebird1999us
 
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Vibration, occasional high idle, and other shenanigans in 2009 auto Yaris hatch

I just changed the spark plugs, battery, the belt, the midpipe/cat and O2 sensors to clear all the bad codes, and the alternator after the original factory alternator went bad at 346k miles. I swapped it out with a Duralast unit from autozone. The car drives fine and I don't have any issues while driving on the highway at all.

1-The high idle occurs at startup The tach runs up to about 1000, hangs there for a second, and then eventually settles back down to 600. Once it's at 600 its solid and does not fluctuate. This only happens at startup.

2-The vibration seems to be the worst when I come to a stop sign and have the heat/air running. The rpm does not change though - it stays a solid 600 when I'm at a complete stop with the shifter in drive at a light. it's like a periodic shudder in the car and I have my foot on the brake at the time. it is considerably less noticeable with the heat/air off but still happens. DOES NOT happen while I'm actually driving. If the car is parked but running with the air going full blast, or in neutral I don't believe it does this but I'll have to retest later to make sure i'm remembering correctly. I'm thinking this has something to do with either the AC, the clutch on the AC pulley or the brake system... I believe CTScott suggested the brake booster or the master cylinder in another thread?

So I should also mention I made the mistake of using a recommended mechanic at the last minute to swap the alternator... it was like 4:00p the day before thanksgiving, I limped into the autozone lot, it was a bad situation, and I didn't trust myself to change an alternator on the fly in the parking lot and I definitely wasn't making it another 50 miles home on the bad alternator. So the mechanic I used put it in and for whatever reason removed the motor mount to do so. When he put it back in he cross threaded one of the bolts going into the top that attaches to the bracket that's bolted to the engine. He then drilled out that hole and used a large head bolt of some sort with a locking nut on the bottom all the way through instead of a bolt that threads into the mount - it bolts from the bottom. The second shop I took it to locally told me the mount looked and felt totally solid...

The other part of that story is that the guy got so focused on the motor mount that he forgot to tighten the bolt on the bottom of the alternator. The car drove fine until the next day when I got a horrendous belt squeal. I went to tension the belt and saw it was basically hanging on the tensioner bolt and the pivot bolt on the bottom had backed out or was never tightened. Once I tightened it and tensioned the belt I've maybe had one or two small chirps on really cold starts.

I've driven the car probably 1500 miles since this whole ordeal started and the vibration and high rev are the only issues I've had. prior to me noticing this vibration/high rev thing - current mechanic said mechanically the car looked solid and he could not find any compression issues with the engine.
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Old 12-14-2018, 01:44 PM   #2
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It's normal for the idle to be high at start up. It normally remain so until the car reaches full operating temperature.

As for the "vibrations", it's hard to say by what you are describing. With AC on, it happens quite often you'd feel some vibrations when the compressor kicks in and out (duty cycle). Now if this happens with just the fan being on... Then dunno man. Should've bought a Corolla lol

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Old 12-14-2018, 05:07 PM   #3
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get the TRD engine mounts, the stock ones are vibration prone. or make filled mounts with poly.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:15 AM   #4
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get the TRD engine mounts, the stock ones are vibration prone. or make filled mounts with poly.
Do you have a part number for those?

Also did confirm vibration is happening only when the car is in drive and at a stop with AC on. Does not vibrate in neutral with my foot on the brake.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:08 AM   #5
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get the TRD engine mounts, the stock ones are vibration prone. or make filled mounts with poly.
Poly filled mounts/stiffer will only make the vibration worse.

High idle that you have is completely normal. With more load on the car the vibration is also normal. The 1nz has a relatively low idle for a 4 banger so it will vibrate with high load on it at idle and then the idle will rise slightly and the vibration will go away. This will periodically fluctuate and happen.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:10 AM   #6
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sounds like normal yaris behavior to me, lol.
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Old 12-17-2018, 12:12 PM   #7
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Poly filled mounts/stiffer will only make the vibration worse.

High idle that you have is completely normal. With more load on the car the vibration is also normal. The 1nz has a relatively low idle for a 4 banger so it will vibrate with high load on it at idle and then the idle will rise slightly and the vibration will go away. This will periodically fluctuate and happen.
I may have mispoke - the issues are independent. The idle doesn't fluctuate when the vibration happens. The idle remains the same. It's got to be the AC causing it. This is a new development since I swapped the alternator. I just used a Duralast alternator from autozone.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:14 PM   #8
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If you have a ultra gauge or scan gauge and read your idle while the vibration happens you will likely see a fluctuation if 50 to 100 rpm.

It may not have happened before and it may have to do with the alternator but this is a common quirk of the Yaris. Chances are you will be chasing this for a long time and throwing way too much money at it for something that really isn't a problem.

Other option is to buy an OEM alternator, but like I said, it won't be cheap and it may or may not fix this quirk.

Many people have chased this red herring before and rarely ever seem to find a solution. Small low hp engines often need high idle rpm's to idle smooth while loaded, manufacturers dont want that due to fuel consumption so they tend to keep the idle rpm's as low as possible and this tends to lead to a vibration while the a/c compressor is running
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:03 PM   #9
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If you have a ultra gauge or scan gauge and read your idle while the vibration happens you will likely see a fluctuation if 50 to 100 rpm.

It may not have happened before and it may have to do with the alternator but this is a common quirk of the Yaris. Chances are you will be chasing this for a long time and throwing way too much money at it for something that really isn't a problem.

Other option is to buy an OEM alternator, but like I said, it won't be cheap and it may or may not fix this quirk.

Many people have chased this red herring before and rarely ever seem to find a solution. Small low hp engines often need high idle rpm's to idle smooth while loaded, manufacturers dont want that due to fuel consumption so they tend to keep the idle rpm's as low as possible and this tends to lead to a vibration while the a/c compressor is running
do you think one of the harmonic balanicer/ dampener thingies is shot or a pully its loose or something stupid.
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:06 PM   #10
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https://www.yourmechanic.com/questio...eshdominican92

see maybe this is useful

see look at that ICV is like the first thing mentioned. id check that.
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:41 PM   #11
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do you think one of the harmonic balanicer/ dampener thingies is shot or a pully its loose or something stupid.
Likely not, they are not known to go in the yaris and the issue is intermittent.

Iirc the yaris doesnt have an IACV, it's sort of built in to the throttle body assembly and/or maf. Motor mounts could be worn, but again its intermittent. I'm pretty sure this is more of a red herring than an actual problem that needs fixing. The yaris like other cars have quirks, this is a well known one. It gets expensive really quick trying to solve them
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Old 12-17-2018, 03:43 PM   #12
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Likely not, they are not known to go in the yaris and the issue is intermittent.

Iirc the yaris doesnt have an IACV, it's sort of built in to the throttle body assembly and/or maf. Motor mounts could be worn, but again its intermittent. I'm pretty sure this is more of a red herring than an actual problem that needs fixing. The yaris like other cars have quirks, this is a well known one. It gets expensive really quick trying to solve them
the car also has 0 Noise Cancling and damping due to being a budget economy car, its 90% steel esp more on the second gen versions and the engine transfers vibrations easier because your sitting in a gokart so your going to feel things that you wouldnt normally feel in say, a corolla.
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Old 12-17-2018, 05:51 PM   #13
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What some people seem to be losing sight of is the fact that OP is a long time owner questioning something he believes has recently changed in his vehicle. He is not a "Hey, new owner here, let me explain my problem."

I agree that this is not something to sweat over, or burn cash on.

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Old 12-17-2018, 06:57 PM   #14
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What some people seem to be losing sight of is the fact that OP is a long time owner questioning something he believes has recently changed in his vehicle. He is not a "Hey, new owner here, let me explain my problem."

I agree that this is not something to sweat over, or burn cash on.

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You are right in some way. I did notice quirks and different things happening to my car over the years, others I just leave it and consider it normal as it doesn't affect day to day life.

I did notice mine vibrate a bit when I put to neutral (manual) as I close to a complete stop, and would continue to vibrate until idle returns to "normal"



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Old 12-18-2018, 09:30 AM   #15
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The bigger problem for me is I'd like to stem off any reliability issues. I drive 150 miles a day to and from work in live television... if I don't get into work at 5:00a and start the show on time there are all kinds of greater financial/sponsor implications for the show I work on. That's why I'm concerned. Don't want to break down - and if I can trouble shoot out something that prevents that and keep the car going I'm all for that. I definitely don't want a new car - but I don't want to ignore something that could turn into a way bigger problem either...

But yeah big vibration is definitely a new change and I've been the sole driver for 347k miles/ almost 10 yeas years. I know what the car feels like and how it drives. I'm thinking it's potentially the brake booster or the clutch on the AC pulley since all the vibration immediately stops if I shift to neutral with the air going full blast and the lights on. So this is a phenomenon specifically related to being in drive with the brakes on.

I've got a Blue Driver that I haven't had a chance to plug in - having not used one of those is there anything I'll be able to gleam from that?

Otherwise I'm going to try and get the car back to the shop for another look Thursday.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:47 AM   #16
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Almost all idle vibration issues go away when shifted into neutral due to lowering the load on the engine. This isn't unique to your situation so don't let that guide you.

The reliability is likely a non issue as many people have the same issue as you. You can have a shop look at the thing mentioned above or do it yourself but like I said it will start adding up fast in $ and the "problem" may never be found.

Due to your mileage I would be looking at things like motor mounts and other potentially worn items. The a/c pulley is always spinning regardless of the compressor being on or not so rule that out.
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:28 PM   #17
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Somewhat new development... the vibration comes in like pulses of 3 and almost feel like they’re coming from back to front of the car. In like 10-15 second increments with AC running full blast. I definitely agree it could be the motor mount... I mean the first mechanic kind of manhanded and flubbed the remount.

Maybe related, maybe unrelated: I ran the heat all the way to work this morning and it was totally dry outside - when I walked out of work 8 hours later I noticed a small puddle of water (maybe like 4 ounces) underneath roughly the area where the water pump is on the car. My understanding was those leaked coolant and not any sort of condensation. It didn’t appeared to have a color or thicker consistency. Anyway I thought that was odd 2 days in the row I’ve seen a small puddle in that area when backing out. It’s in a deck and Water sometimes sits for a while but I recall the spot being totally dry. Also slight periodic rattle coming from the general are of the water pump. I don’t see any pink coolant in the engine bay or on the underside of the hood. No temp lights. Running the heat wouldnt create a condensation puddle would it??? Temp outside has been like 39-55 and dry.

I need to get my wife to sit in the car so we can see if the noises are corresponding to what I’m feeling in the cabin.

Also I appreciate everyone’s advice here!
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:42 PM   #18
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Which HVAC setting do you use? AC is automatically on when you put it to foot+windshield setting, and front defrost as well.

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