HEADER & INTAKE R&D.

[tca4]

Helping a friend to ask, does the header fits the old 05 Echo HB? thanks.

[jcove]

Want....need....can't spend money....

[ItsMyDaily]

Originally Posted by eco

I would have to say that the Megan Racing headers will be better.Because a header that is 4-1 gives you the advantage in the high rpm band,say 3000-6000,rather then 500-4500.Headers that are 4-1 have lease restriction,a must at high rpms.

eco check out the dyno plot. This header is making great gains down low, but even better ones up top. For an engine this small a 4-1 design is not necessary, and your probably going to see small gains if any down low, but I'm sure you'll see some up top. Fact is that our cars would benefit more from midrange power then they would from top end power. This header looks like its the best of both worlds.

[Katana]

Originally Posted by WRLEO

yes that was the only mod.
we are planning to do a 1.3L header also.

Let me know cause I am extremely interested!!!

[eco]

Yes,the chart looks good till about 4500rpm,then performance degrades.A 4-1 will be better from that point on,I want more oomph when Im already traveling at 75 mph,about 3200rpm,and want to floor it,Ill reach top end faster with a 4-1.Now I will say a 4-2-1 will be slightly,and I mean slightly better for accelaration,only because it will give alittle mor back pressure,somthing you dont want when the engine is wide open.Just wait till we test the Megan headers,youll see.

[WRLEO]

I have seen these 4-1 and 4-2-1 header convo's on many forums..
it's to each their own. but back to basics..
For example.. ( Im just here to give info.)
95% of Honda Race Headers are 4-2-1.
These guys look for the biggest gap in BASE and after dyno runs.
The most important things is TORQUE, Not Horsepower.
Torque PULLS you and Gives you that OMMPH..

4-2-1 does not give more back pressure. It's all about the pairing of the firing pattern of the exhaust and how the exhaust scavenges out of the cylinder head and how it gets pulled out of the header into the exhaust.
Think of how the engine works.

Cylinder 4&1 are up while 2&3 are down. Thats the engine cycle.
Our header is set up to scavenge the exhaust gases out of the engine as fast as it can hence the 4-2. And finally when the two different pulses of exhaust gases are merged they push each other out. If you can understand this, you will start to understand why 4-2-1 headers are better and more effecient than a 4-1 header.

As you can see 4-1 headers dont take much design and or any R&D at all. Just run all the tubes into one collector. Lets let the dyno sheets speak for themselves.

Here are some examples for you.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/view...ht=mmw++header

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/view...w++header+dyno

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/view...ht=mmw++header

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/view...ht=mmw++header

[ChinoCharles]

If you're going to compare two products, it would be good to at least mention both, rather than mention one 200 times and mention the other once.

As you can see 4-1 headers dont take much design and or any R&D at all.

You must think we're morons...

I smell bias. Go read up kiddies, the 4-2-1 vs. 4-1 debate is up in the air and differs depending on the car and the rest of the components with it.

[WRLEO]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

If you're going to compare two products, it would be good to at least mention both, rather than mention one 200 times and mention the other once.


You must think we're morons...

I smell bias. Go read up kiddies, the 4-2-1 vs. 4-1 debate is up in the air and differs depending on the car and the rest of the components with it.

We do not slam on anyone. im just here to provide info.
Im just pointing out other peoples thoughts on 4-2-1 headers.

Im simply pointing out 4-1 & 4-2-1 designs.

Here are some other companies that make the same kind of headers.

http://www.hytechexhaust.com/
http://www.comptechusa.com/
http://www.rcrewracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103
Jst a few to mention.

[bigsky2]

Originally Posted by ChinoCharles

If you're going to compare two products, it would be good to at least mention both, rather than mention one 200 times and mention the other once.


You must think we're morons...

I smell bias. Go read up kiddies, the 4-2-1 vs. 4-1 debate is up in the air and differs depending on the car and the rest of the components with it.

+1 for another shit disturbing reply

[ChinoCharles]

He isn't a supporting vendor yet, I can question him all I want.

He'd say anything to sell some headers. Let me guess, people with 4-2-1 headers are generally larger down there, right?

[Violin]

I had already decided that I wanted a 4-2-1 over a 4-1 for midrange gains and driveability. I'm not building a drag racer - this is my daily commuter. I also think a manufacturer should do testing as part of the design process rather than after the sale - just me I guess.

[ItsMyDaily]

I agree with Violin. I wanted a 4-2-1 design for the yaris aswell. I believe the Yaris will benefit better with a 4-2-1 design then a 4-1. Top end gains are going to be similar with either one, but it's bottom end hat is going to be benefited with the 4-2-1 design. My car is my daily commuter and I want to improve on city driving as much as possible. However even for those thinking of tracking their yaris...your going to want to improve on your midrange with this car a lot more then just top end numbers.

[Fastnx]

As you can see 4-1 headers dont take much design and or any R&D at all. Just run all the tubes into one collector. Lets let the dyno sheets speak for themselves.

What? That has got to be one of the most ignorant statments I have ever heard.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/1780476

this header was obviously just thrown together


Looks like it didn't help much either

[cough]18hp gain[/cough]

[WRLEO]

I was talking about Honda's.. With some kind of VTEC.
That was a SR20 NA..

Like i said ... 4-1 heades are easy to make, alot easier than a 4-2-1.
That was my point. You dont have to agree with me..

Get me a car to run it on and i will prove it to you.. thats all. we dont need to go back and forth about these little things. Just let the dynos speak for themselves.

[eco]

Like I said,a 4-1 design will be better after 4500rpm,and looks like it might be just as good in the low rpm band from that example,but remeber folks,your going to pay $350.00 for the headers from WR,plus shipping and tax,when you can pay $190.00 for the Megan headers,and low low end diffrence is not even noticable between the 2,and the Megan headers will be better at the high end,this should not be a hard choice,save some money and get the better headers,Megan headers.

[Katana]

Originally Posted by WRLEO

We do not slam on anyone. im just here to provide info.
Im just pointing out other peoples thoughts on 4-2-1 headers.

Im simply pointing out 4-1 & 4-2-1 designs.

Here are some other companies that make the same kind of headers.

http://www.hytechexhaust.com/
http://www.comptechusa.com/
http://www.rcrewracing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=103
Jst a few to mention.

From what I generally know, a 4-2-1 design is better from a 4-1 design.My Yaris has 4-1 header and some technicians have told me that this is bad, because the engine's gases are immediately compressed into one tube, than gradually compressing them from 4 tubes, to 2 tubes, to 1 tube(4-2-1).

However, I may be wrong.

[the_saint]

Might as well put in my $0.02.
From what I remember & I've been told (back in my V8 days) 4-1 or longtube headers are more for WOT/drag racing because the exhaust doesn't have much in the way of restriction...but as a result you lose low RPM power/torque.
With the 4-2-1 style headers you get better drivability because (when properly engineered) the layout of the tube and the order in which they come together helps scavange or suck exhaust out which is supposed to help low end power.

So, in short...
4-1 better for drag racing
4-2-1 better for daily driver



If you're bored you can always read this...Header-Exhaust Design Effects on Engine Power.

[YamilR]

Alright so who's going to volunteer to head a Group Buy on this header? And put me down for one, please