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Old 09-16-2017, 08:47 PM   #1
06YarisRS
 
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Replaced drums, shoes. Soft pedal...

Got the rear brakes done (fronts were done just before I bought the car, I'd say). Everything is clean and lubricated with new hardware. At one point one of the pistons and return spring flew out and spilled some fluid. I think I may need to bleed. My pedal is very soft and goes almost to the floor.

When I was installing the new drums, I had to back the adjusters off quite a bit to fit the drum on due to the thicker friction material.

I'll bleed the system - if I can get the bleeder screws loosened (I haven't checked them yet). Then, I'll play with the adjusters. Is this the right sequence? Or should I adjust the adjusters first. Open to suggestions. Thanks.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:18 PM   #2
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I would adjust the brakes as needed and then bleed. Prepare to have a seized bleed nipple and either try heat or just buy a newbrake cylinder.

You likely have air in the system when the spring blew out. A similar thing happened to me when I tore the boot and put in a new cylinder. A bleed fixed all of that for me
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:17 AM   #3
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I would adjust the brakes as needed and then bleed. Prepare to have a seized bleed nipple and either try heat or just buy a newbrake cylinder.

You likely have air in the system when the spring blew out. A similar thing happened to me when I tore the boot and put in a new cylinder. A bleed fixed all of that for me
Excellent! Thanks. I will follow your advice. I was going to buy wheel cylinders with my brake parts order but cancelled those as when I initially had the wheel off they looked good with no leaks. I'm kicking myself now, especially since they were like $8.00 CAD each and I would have saved on combined shipping. I guess I was hoping to avoid working with brake line fittings as well. Fingers are crossed that the rust protection spray I coated the back of the backing plate has helped loosen up the bleeder screws. I'm going to do the brake adjustment/bleed today. I have lots of DOT 3 in my garage, so I'll attempt a complete flush. I'll post back with good news...or bad.
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:41 PM   #4
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OK, posting back with bad news... I broke a bleeded screw off. I went quite gently, back and forth a bit just tapping my ratchet. I did not apply heat as I have no propane atm. If felt like it was letting go, then it sheered right off. I figured, here comes the brake fluid...Nope, not a drop. Examining the broken bleed screw in my hand, it was completely compacted with corrosion. It took some digging to get it out. Since I have no brake fluid leaking, I'm assuming what's left of the screw in the wheel cylinder is also plugged. I won't be driving the car until I replace the wheel cylinder. I'm not enthusiastic about removing the brake lines. Would heat be a good situation in this application? I'm going to do full bleed anyway, once I have the new wheel cylinders installed. And, I would definitely say I have air in the system. I have both rear wheels adjusted perfectly (I think) and still, a soft pedal.

On a more upbeat note, I did get the coolant changed and painted my calipers. So, all was not lost today.
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Old 09-17-2017, 02:54 PM   #5
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Be careful with wheel cylinders. There threads are really soft. Many aftermarket wheel cylinders are junk too. I've tried raybestos and had like 3 of them leak within a short period of time. Also dorman was crap too. I used centric premium off rockauto and it worked pretty good.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:19 PM   #6
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Be careful with wheel cylinders. There threads are really soft. Many aftermarket wheel cylinders are junk too. I've tried raybestos and had like 3 of them leak within a short period of time. Also dorman was crap too. I used centric premium off rockauto and it worked pretty good.
Ah, great advice. Thanks. I was actually just at Rock Auto looking at the $6.99 Centric standard ones, but for an other buck and change, the Centric Premium sound like the way to go. Either way, I sure regret trying to save a few bucks on my brake parts order and removing the wheel cylinders from my cart. I think it was actually the Centric Premiums I had in my cart. Dang!
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:08 PM   #7
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Make sure you use flared wrenches on brake lines, do not use regular box wrenches, you'll strip them. Penetrating oil can help but try and keep it off of the nut and only on the threads.

Have a MAP torch (yellow bottle) on hand in case you need to apply heat to help get the nut moving. In the future keep your bleed nipple and brake lines coated in fluid film or equivalent.

I find if the brakes don't get bled at least every 2 years then the nipples seize up. Salt is unforgiving.
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Old 09-17-2017, 09:47 PM   #8
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Make sure you use flared wrenches on brake lines, do not use regular box wrenches, you'll strip them. Penetrating oil can help but try and keep it off of the nut and only on the threads.

Have a MAP torch (yellow bottle) on hand in case you need to apply heat to help get the nut moving. In the future keep your bleed nipple and brake lines coated in fluid film or equivalent.

I find if the brakes don't get bled at least every 2 years then the nipples seize up. Salt is unforgiving.
Thanks tmontague. I will follow your suggestions. I don't have flare wrenches, but am looking at Canadian Tire for a set. They have a set on clearance now with 9mm - 14mm. Do you know off hand what size the tubing nut is?

Once I do get it fixed, I will bleed my brakes at least every two years as well as apply a rustproofing/lubricating compound. On my other cars, I do bleed the brakes, usually everu couple of years.

Thanks again.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:06 PM   #9
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Iirc the nut is a 10mm but I believe the bleeder nipple is 8mm
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:11 AM   #10
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Iirc the nut is a 10mm but I believe the bleeder nipple is 8mm
Great, thanks. Where exacty would you apply the heat? I'm not concerned about getting the bleeder screws out as I'm replacing those anyway. But, the tubing bolt. Not certain what should be heated. My elementary grasp of physics, tells me not to heat the fastener as it will only expand and get tighter. Heating the wheel cylinder to remove the larger retaining nut makes sense to me though.
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:54 PM   #11
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Wheel Cylinder Replaced

I did source two wheel cylinders (Raybestos PG Plus Professional Grade) locally. After breaking the bleeder screw off, I was expecting a very tough job of removing the retaining bolt and brake tubing fitting. I'm guessing my liberal application of Rust Check from a week ago paid off. With a little back and forth on each fastener, they came off. I did a bleed of that station, adjusted the shoes and I'm back to what feels like new car brakes - very firm and responsive. There was a LOT of air in the system. Probably a good 20 pumps before I had a steady stream of brake fluid.

I plan to replace the other wheel cylinder tonight.

EDIT: The second one is done. I had picked up a can of what I think is called ReleaseAll - can't recall the exact name as it's out in the garage now. I think it helped with the fastener removal.
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Old 10-10-2017, 05:26 PM   #12
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I also felt a soft pedal after checking my rear brakes by myself, because the repair shop wants me $450 claiming the shoes must be changed!
I guess the reason of the soft pedal was that some air came into the brake line when I cleaned the rear brake piston's rubber seals.
I just re-adjusted the adjuster screw. Be patient and try many times, with 2-3 clicks each time. Don't forget to apply the e-brakes from time to time with the drum on. A Youtube repair video said this helps centering the shoes to the right positions. You want the shoes rather close to the drum, and has just a little resistance. Then I bled the rear brakes. Now both the pedal and e-brake both feels tight.
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:51 PM   #13
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I also felt a soft pedal after checking my rear brakes by myself, because the repair shop wants me $450 claiming the shoes must be changed!
I guess the reason of the soft pedal was that some air came into the brake line when I cleaned the rear brake piston's rubber seals.
I just re-adjusted the adjuster screw. Be patient and try many times, with 2-3 clicks each time. Don't forget to apply the e-brakes from time to time with the drum on. A Youtube repair video said this helps centering the shoes to the right positions. You want the shoes rather close to the drum, and has just a little resistance. Then I bled the rear brakes. Now both the pedal and e-brake both feels tight.
Glad it worked out for you. $450.00 for a rear brake job is highway robbery in my opinion. I think I paid around $80.00 for all the parts. It wasn't a difficult job. The springs can be a bit tricky.
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Old 10-11-2017, 07:44 AM   #14
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Brake change, including parts and labour is about 400$ for the front. A bit more for the rear because this drum cost more..

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Old 10-11-2017, 09:44 PM   #15
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Brake change, including parts and labour is about 400$ for the front. A bit more for the rear because this drum cost more..

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I stand corrected.
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