Optimal MT shift points.

[10DG22]

So I'm just wondering when taking off in first gear I'm trying to find the best RPM to engage the clutch at with out hurting the transmission/clutch. Also what does everyone else shift at?

[SilverBack]

Search button is your friend

[BailOut]

Welcome to YarisWorld, 10DG22.

I always shift at 2k RPM unless I'm merging onto the highway, in which case I allow for 2,400 RPM.

On steep grades, such as in the mountains, I shift at 2,600 RPM in order to keep some torque.

[10DG22]

Thanks a lot.

[BuildCode]

I have the clutch fully engaged under 1,100 RPM. Generally what I do is when letting the clutch out at the very moment it starts catching I give some gas (very little), but continue engaging clutch staying around 1,000 RPM or so. This all happens quickly of course, maybe 1 second? - my goal is to engage the clutch as quickly as possible, and at as low an RPM as possible (without dipping below idle RPM). To me, this will make the most of clutch life. Once I have the clutch engaged it's another story though, I usually accelerate pretty "spirited."

Shift points totally depend...sometimes I play the 2,000 RPM game like BailOut, but usually it's just all about surrounding environment - that's what so perfect about manual transmissions, the shift points happen exactly when and where you want them to, 100% of the time. Don't worry too much about it - listen to what the car tells you and enjoy the drive!

[dingbat]

Originally Posted by 10DG22

So I'm just wondering when taking off in first gear I'm trying to find the best RPM to engage the clutch at with out hurting the transmission/clutch. Also what does everyone else shift at?

From standing, when I'm trying to be good to a car, I've always engaged a clutch with as little throttle as I can get away with without a stall or stutter. Basically, as little slip as possible. For shifting my Yaris ('10 3 door), I mostly wind it out toward red line with my foot in it most of the time (after the oil is warmed up of course) and I'm still getting 33-34 mpg on VT and Western MA mountain roads. I'm pretty shocked by the gas mileage. It's far beyond what I expected.

[AdeJong 03]

6500 rpm is the absolute best!

[minnyar]

I shift out of first between 2500 and 3000, and second through fourth at 2500. On braking it really depends how far I have to travel, if traffic's light and the light is red a quarter mile ahead, I go in to neutral and coast, If I am coming of the interstate I leave it in 5th and downshift to fourth around 30, then go to neutral. I have no idea if this is 'optimal' but I get a solid 39mpg in ver cold MN winters and 42-43 in the summer.

[goliath1812]

Originally Posted by minnyar

I shift out of first between 2500 and 3000, and second through fourth at 2500. On braking it really depends how far I have to travel, if traffic's light and the light is red a quarter mile ahead, I go in to neutral and coast, If I am coming of the interstate I leave it in 5th and downshift to fourth around 30, then go to neutral. I have no idea if this is 'optimal' but I get a solid 39mpg in ver cold MN winters and 42-43 in the summer.

If you downshift all the time, instead of putting it in neutral and coasting, you'll get better mileage by using DFCO.

[minnyar]

Originally Posted by goliath1812

If you downshift all the time, instead of putting it in neutral and coasting, you'll get better mileage by using DFCO.

Debatable. It really depends on how far away that red light/stop sign/etc is. There is a point at which coasting is going to be more efficient than downshifting. Downshifting is practical if I need to come to a stop, or want to casually reduce speed without using the brakes, but if a light has turned green and I know that by the time I get to the light 1/4 or 1/2 mile away all the cars in front of me are up to speed it makes more sense to coast. Think of it this way: Lets assume the speed limit is 55. Am I really saving fuel by leaving the car in gear or downshifting to obtain DFCO and I lose 20 mph of speed (at which point traffic ahead is moving sufficiently to speed up) only to have to accelerate the 20 mph back to 55. If the car was in neutral I may only lose 5 mph over the same distance. Although the engine was burning fuel by idling rather than DFCO, I only need to accelerate 5 mph. You are never going to use more fuel, in any car, than during acceleration. So while your point if valid, if you need to stop or decelerate quicker, it really depends on the distance involved.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by minnyar

Debatable. It really depends on how far away that red light/stop sign/etc is. There is a point at which coasting is going to be more efficient than downshifting. Downshifting is practical if I need to come to a stop, or want to casually reduce speed without using the brakes, but if a light has turned green and I know that by the time I get to the light 1/4 or 1/2 mile away all the cars in front of me are up to speed it makes more sense to coast. Think of it this way: Lets assume the speed limit is 55. Am I really saving fuel by leaving the car in gear or downshifting to obtain DFCO and I lose 20 mph of speed (at which point traffic ahead is moving sufficiently to speed up) only to have to accelerate the 20 mph back to 55. If the car was in neutral I may only lose 5 mph over the same distance. Although the engine was burning fuel by idling rather than DFCO, I only need to accelerate 5 mph. You are never going to use more fuel, in any car, than during acceleration. So while your point if valid, if you need to stop or decelerate quicker, it really depends on the distance involved.

Well said, minnyar.

[jones]

I usually shift between 2,500 and 4,000 for first gear, because of the ridiculously different ratio's for first and second, then it's usually around the 2,500 - 3,200 mark.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by jones

I usually shift between 2,500 and 4,000 for first gear, because of the ridiculously different ratio's for first and second, then it's usually around the 2,500 - 3,200 mark.

The OP is looking for the optimal shift points as it concerns fuel efficiency. The RPMs you listed are much too high for that. In fact, the RPMs you listed are where I shift while accelerating from zero on a 6% grade!

[10DG22]

Thanks for everyone's input.

[Bluevitz-rs]

My last tank yielded me 36.7MPG (US) with shifts anywhere from 2700-6000rpm. Most of my driving was conservative, but some was WOT having fun with the new 6spd.

So shifting higher doesn't affect MPG as much as you'd think. The higher you rev the motor (to a point at around 3500-4000) the more efficient it is at producing torque. Bogging the motor below 2000 only causes the timing to retard to prevent detonation which decreases it efficiency.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs

My last tank yielded me 36.7MPG (US) with shifts anywhere from 2700-6000rpm. Most of my driving was conservative, but some was WOT having fun with the new 6spd.

So shifting higher doesn't affect MPG as much as you'd think. The higher you rev the motor (to a point at around 3500-4000) the more efficient it is at producing torque. Bogging the motor below 2000 only causes the timing to retard to prevent detonation which decreases it efficiency.

The 36 MPG you reported is the fleet average for this vehicle. Anyone trying for higher efficiency doesn't require much torque and will need to shift at lower RPMs to achieve their goal.

Higher RPM always means more fuel usage, and bogging is a thing of the past for the most part. Modern ECUs simply retard the timing to match the state of things. In almost 60k miles of hypermiling the Yaris in the mountains I have never heard the engine bog.

[why?]

you shouldn't really worry about hurting the clutch. I think it's been proven that the clutch/transmission in the yaris is rather rock solid, like most toyota's.

i also tend to shift around 2000 rpm's.

[bankrobber]

I always kinda feather the gas while releasing the clutch. No idea on RPM's as I dont have a tach. Probably between 2,500 and 3,000.
1st to 2nd at 15MPH
2nd to 3rd around 35MPH
3rd to 4th around 50 MPH
5th at 60MPH

I have 85,000 miles. My last truck was a Ram 1500 V-6 5 speed and I always shifted at the top of the power band. Never tried to save gas and shift early. Hell, a few times I hit 70MPH in 3rd gear. It was high geared. Point is I never lugged it always shifted at same speeds/RPM's and the truck loved it. I sold it at 264,000 miles and still ran great.
The Yaris is on it's way to that record