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Old 05-19-2014, 08:59 PM   #19
why?
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Originally Posted by jack black View Post
You must be a very accomplished hypermiller.
Yaris real life MPG is mid to high 30's:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris

On the other hand, Prius averages 47 MPG in real life:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

If you drove a Prius with your hypermilling skills, you would get 60 MPG easily.

I'm not even going to get to the argument that Yaris is subcompact while Prius is midsize.
No, he is not an idiot that pretends he is drag racing like most people. That is all it really takes in the Yaris.

And yes, the Prius barely fits into the midsize category only because they made it as open as possible. It is still on the smaller size of the midsize spectrum, and unless you do a ton of city driving and drive to get the best gas mileage, as you might do, it isn't worth it. But hey, you want to use the masses to judge fuel economy? Fine. fuelly gets 47. Which is absolutely pathetic. The last time I actually had to drive on a freeway, I did that in my Yaris.

Now let's actually be honest here. The Prius and the Yaris are cross shopped. The main reason to by both is because of gas mileage. I looked at both before I bought my Yaris in may of 2006. I, like many on here went with the Yaris because the extra gas mileage simply was not going to make up the price differential short of $8 a gallon gas. And since you like fuelly so much, here is mine.

I almost never do anything like freeway style driving to boost that number up, the closest I get is state highways with tons of lights, cars stopping to take turns, and the like. And unlike most hypermilers, I use my cruise as much as possible, I very rarely drive to endanger like they do, about the only thing I do is drive the actual posted speed limit, and not act like a dumb ass drag racer.
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:01 PM   #20
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No, he is not an idiot that pretends he is drag racing like most people. That is all it really takes in the Yaris.

And yes, the Prius barely fits into the midsize category only because they made it as open as possible. It is still on the smaller size of the midsize spectrum, and unless you do a ton of city driving and drive to get the best gas mileage, as you might do, it isn't worth it. But hey, you want to use the masses to judge fuel economy? Fine. fuelly gets 47. Which is absolutely pathetic. The last time I actually had to drive on a freeway, I did that in my Yaris.

Now let's actually be honest here. The Prius and the Yaris are cross shopped. The main reason to by both is because of gas mileage. I looked at both before I bought my Yaris in may of 2006. I, like many on here went with the Yaris because the extra gas mileage simply was not going to make up the price differential short of $8 a gallon gas. And since you like fuelly so much, here is mine.

I almost never do anything like freeway style driving to boost that number up, the closest I get is state highways with tons of lights, cars stopping to take turns, and the like. And unlike most hypermilers, I use my cruise as much as possible, I very rarely drive to endanger like they do, about the only thing I do is drive the actual posted speed limit, and not act like a dumb ass drag racer.
Your post confirmed what I said before, people get mid to high 30's on average in Yaris.

Thanks for chiming in.

Look, I'm not anti Yaris. I bought one for my kid and think is a good and thrifty car for a single person.

But, saying that Yaris gets the same MPG as good hybrids is just a lie.
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by why? View Post
No, he is not an idiot that pretends he is drag racing like most people. That is all it really takes in the Yaris.

.
^this. I literally did nothing but avoiding gunning away from stops/keeping it gassed til im 20 feet from stops. the rest was going with the flow of traffic. that is it.

fuelly results aren't useful unless you look deeper into the numbers. looking at peoples numbers who are recording primarily highway, you will see plenty of low-mid 40's. likewise, many of those mid and upper 30's involve a higher percentage of city driving. the results are from all over the place, including places in Europe where they don't have much chance to do the kind of highway driving we do here. there is also a trend of the manual transmissions beating epa estimates more handily than the auto.



you want to see "real world" 5 speed yaris numbers from this country, here you go. from fueleconomy.gov.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Power...is&srchtyp=ymm

you can see the mpg in bold. the last two numbers before the date are city and highway percentage. it is clear that plenty of people driving a higher percentage of highway are doing better than mid to upper 30's. it is consistent with what I regularly achieve by just driving reasonable. looks to me that highway numbers are a lot better than mid to upper 30's, n'est–ce pas?.....more like upper 30's to low 40's. I can confirm than one not need be a hypermiler to get these numbers.

1 50.2 OR 10 90 04/14/2008
2 47.5 OR 10 90 06/06/2011
3 44.3 WV 0 0 07/15/2009
4 44.2 IL 10 90 10/21/2008
5 43.8 UT 31 69 07/26/2008
6 43.4 ME 20 80 05/29/2008
7 43.3 NH 15 85 06/12/2008
8 43.0 NH 10 90 10/10/2012
9 42.5 NC 20 80 09/23/2008
10 41.5 OH 40 60 07/16/2008
11 41.3 GA 80 20 07/30/2009
12 41.1 CA 20 80 07/20/2008
13 41.0 OH 30 70 07/30/2008
14 41.0 TX 20 80 12/05/2012
15 41.0 MT 46 54 02/13/2009
16 40.7 UT 30 70 05/27/2008
17 40.2 NY 47 53 06/18/2009
18 40.0 FL 40 60 09/05/2008
19 39.9 UT 37 63 11/11/2008
20 39.8 FL 37 63 07/26/2009
21 39.3 CA 30 70 10/19/2008
22 39.3 CA 18 83 04/06/2008
23 39.2 PA 70 30 05/08/2008
24 39.2 CA 70 30 06/28/2008
25 39.0 NC 20 80 10/04/2008
26 38.8 NY 20 80 11/17/2009
27 38.6 IL 40 60 11/12/2007
28 38.5 NC 55 45 01/28/2008
29 38.4 WA 46 54 01/02/2014
30 38.4 CT 37 63 07/11/2008
31 38.3 WI 31 69 02/26/2010
32 37.2 WA 33 67 12/12/2007
33 37.0 IL 30 70 05/03/2008
34 37.0 SC 20 80 05/31/2008
35 36.6 IN 50 50 04/17/2008
36 36.6 40 60 08/13/2008
37 36.2 CA 20 80 06/03/2008
38 36.2 CA 61 39 03/30/2009
39 35.0 MN 50 50 01/30/2008
40 34.0 IL 60 40 08/03/2009
41 32.1 CA 90 10 08/14/2008
42 31.9 CA 50 50 10/16/2009
43 24.9 CT 90 10 01/02/2008

Last edited by roxy1; 05-20-2014 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:05 AM   #22
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But, saying that Yaris gets the same MPG as good hybrids is just a lie.
saying it can come close on mostly highway driving is realistic. saying the prius, in mostly highway driving, isn't worth the cost has certainly been established.

if someone wants the prius for more room, nicer interior, quieter drive, etc...that's fine. if they want to argue its worth the extra cost for what they will save doing mostly highway driving, that doesn't hold much water.

even at 40 mpg's vs 46 mpg's (real world highway, which is a legit real world number for highway prius driving)and 15,000 miles per year and $4/gallon gas, the prius only saves $196 per year.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:31 AM   #23
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What scares me is the public is accepting skyrocketing increases in the price of their cars for questionable "advances" like hybrid drive, ABS, 12 air bags, traction control, increased size of vehicle (compare an 85 Camry with a 2014) and many others

My 1980 Subaru Hatchback was $4600 OTD, 88 VW Fox $7000 ditto, 2001 ECHO $13.100, 09 Yaris Im not sure because I had a 0 percent loan but Im thinking ~$15500.

A new Yaris OTD is nearly $20k.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:47 AM   #24
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What scares me is the public is accepting skyrocketing increases in the price of their cars for questionable "advances" like hybrid drive, ABS, 12 air bags, traction control, increased size of vehicle (compare an 85 Camry with a 2014) and many others

My 1980 Subaru Hatchback was $4600 OTD, 88 VW Fox $7000 ditto, 2001 ECHO $13.100, 09 Yaris Im not sure because I had a 9 percent loan but Im thinking ~$15500.

A new Yaris OTD is nearly $20k.
yeah, and some of the price increases are to justify adding a few mpg's, which adds so little value once you get up around 40 mpg's.

but, I will take the airbags. they could leave everything else out.
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Old 05-20-2014, 11:43 AM   #25
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saying it can come close on mostly highway driving is realistic. saying the prius, in mostly highway driving, isn't worth the cost has certainly been established.
Here we go, we came back the full circle to the initial post that claimed that hwy (only) numbers of some small cars are close to what hybrids can deliver.

There is no disagreement here. My point is that most people live and drive in cities, and no car (even small) can touch hybrid city MPG. This is well reflected in the real life fuelly numbers.

So pointing out that you or someone can somehow (probably slow driving) get 50 mpg is useless. Look, I can get 70 mph in mu Prius if I drive it slow enough, but I have enough sense not to brag about it.

As to what's "worth" the cost and what's not, most people spend $30,000 on a new car in this country. They typically get a gas guzzler. Is it "worth" it? Apparently it is for them.

For full disclosure, I paid $21,000 for my prius when new in 2010 and very happy with the car. I owned 11 different cars so far (all imports, 4 Toyotas) and Prius is the best car (but not most expensive) I have ever had. Very "worth" to me.

If you really wanted to save some money on a car, you wouldn't buy Yaris either, you would buy a beater manual Saturn and they deliver 30-40 MPG. My friend recently bought a 2002 one with low miles (no oil burning) for only $1200 and he likes it a lot. Any Toyota of this age would be in the $5000 rage.
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Old 05-20-2014, 11:47 AM   #26
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questionable "advances" like hybrid drive, ABS, 12 air bags, traction control, increased size of vehicle
You're funny!
Apparently people like them a lot last time I checked (sales numbers).
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:03 PM   #27
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You're funny!
Apparently people like them a lot last time I checked (sales numbers).
What I want to see is that 1980 Subaru on a showroom floor with a $4600 price tag on it.

How many of those would they sell?
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:25 PM   #28
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I have to point out that many city commutes are relatively short, or if there is city driving included in a longer commute, that portion is relatively short.

many people get away with poor mileage cars in short city commutes because even at 15 mpg and 60 miles per week (of true city commute), it costs only $16/week.

if I lived in the city and had an all city commute, I probably would get a 15 yr old beater that gave me 15 mpg. at least most folks I know that live in the city and work in the city don't drive very many miles per week.
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Old 05-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #29
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So pointing out that you or someone can somehow (probably slow driving) get 50 mpg is useless. Look, I can get 70 mph in mu Prius if I drive it slow enough, but I have enough sense not to brag about it.

.
i know my entire trip (and all my work commuting) is done with the flow of traffic. the lifetime average of my yaris is 43.2 mpg.

let me know when you see someone on here bragging about driving like granny and getting 50 mpg in their yaris.
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:33 PM   #30
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While your sooooo happy with the prius, lets not forget the extra 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked.

This is something very few(if any)Prius owners every deal with or think about.

The Prius is loaded with toxic waste! And Prius owners are helping to pollute our planet, Just so they can feel warm and fuzzy about using less gasoline.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jack black View Post
You must be a very accomplished hypermiller.
Yaris real life MPG is mid to high 30's:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/yaris

On the other hand, Prius averages 47 MPG in real life:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius

If you drove a Prius with your hypermilling skills, you would get 60 MPG easily.

I'm not even going to get to the argument that Yaris is subcompact while Prius is midsize.
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:00 PM   #31
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While your sooooo happy with the prius, lets not forget the extra 1/2 ton of toxic waste the earth needs to deal with, when I prius is wrecked.

This is something very few(if any)Prius owners every deal with or think about.

The Prius is loaded with toxic waste! And Prius owners are helping to pollute our planet, Just so they can feel warm and fuzzy about using less gasoline.
.....including the elephant in the room --- replacing the hybrid battery. A lady called into the nationally syndicated Car Pro radio show this last weekend wondering if she should trade in her Prius. Jerry said that dealers, when looking at the value of a Prius trade in, peg the life of the hybrid battery at about 150,000-160,000 miles in most climates (shaving a bit off that range if the car has 'lived' in extreme heat or extreme cold). He said that the replacement cost has been coming down, but that the current replacement cost is about $4,000 (sometimes a bit less).
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:15 AM   #32
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What I love about the Yaris is that one can achieve around 40 MPG average with a plain-old gasoline engine and an automatic transmission in a car that is much less-expensive than a hybrid. For me, that makes some economic sense in the long run. Just my two pennies...
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:32 PM   #33
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Thats about 7 years with my 23k per year driving. I'd be pissed if the dealer told me, at the 7~8 year mark, $4000. please!



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.....including the elephant in the room --- replacing the hybrid battery. A lady called into the nationally syndicated Car Pro radio show this last weekend wondering if she should trade in her Prius. Jerry said that dealers, when looking at the value of a Prius trade in, peg the life of the hybrid battery at about 150,000-160,000 miles in most climates (shaving a bit off that range if the car has 'lived' in extreme heat or extreme cold). He said that the replacement cost has been coming down, but that the current replacement cost is about $4,000 (sometimes a bit less).
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:34 PM   #34
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Also, then the old batteries go down to Mexico to poison poor kids. What's wrong with this picture?

http://sadhillnews.com/2011/12/09/bu...kill-a-mexican
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:48 PM   #35
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Also, then the old batteries go down to Mexico to poison poor kids. What's wrong with this picture?

http://sadhillnews.com/2011/12/09/bu...kill-a-mexican
I agree with you. Being a fellow Bay Area person I don't have to explain liberal hypocrisy or the fake symbolism motivated by guilt that some people exhibit. For some reason what jumps out at first off the top of my head on this subject is Leonardo DiCaprio driving a Prius to reduce his carbon footprint while at the same time having his own Gulfstream V.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:59 AM   #36
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Wait, sounds like a good plan. Kill of the mexican drug lords with lead poisoning.
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