The open political discussion thread. Read the first post!

[Malaya1221]

Originally Posted by 2+2

And right under the youtube "screen" there's "This is a video response to Alleged Barack Obama Kenya Birth Certificate Document Displayed" LOL Sorry - cheap shot but I couldn't resist. If you watch that with due skepticism you'll notice that the single payer quotes were from a long time ago. He's quite open about the fact that he now considers it unfeasible due to how entrenched the insurance companies and others are.

What do Republicans have against this man? He seems like a good guy. He seems to have an ok wife and a couple of cool kids. He's smart. He seems to want to do what's best for all Americans and not just the rich and what a nice change that is. What's wrong?

people already made up their minds...no matter what obama does, he won't be able to change their mind...

It's hard to hear things clearly if you don't listen.

Originally Posted by JBougie

Have you read the bill? Actually READ the bill? I can sit there all day until I am red in the face that the damn bill says nothing about everyone receiving a flying purple pony - however, unless you READ that for yourself TAKE NO ONES WORD FOR IT because you might just be needing to get a stable to house your new flying purple pony.

you keep saying that you've read the proposal....could you kindly point to us/me one by one your objections to it so we could dissect it and maybe find a common ground...and if you could give a better option than what the health reform is proposing rather than getting furious...it's the only healthy way to solve problems...

[JBougie]

Originally Posted by Malaya1221

you keep saying that you've read the proposal....could you kindly point to us/me one by one your objections to it so we could dissect it and maybe find a common ground...and if you could give a better option than what the health reform is proposing rather than getting furious...it's the only healthy way to solve problems...

I have not said I have read it (just clarifying )- I said I am in the process of reading - well, WAS until they pulled it (oddly enough) off the Thomas.gov site and replaced the full length text version of HR3200 with the 39 page cliff-notes version. So, now I have to figure out which is the latest and greatest and start all over. Which I am going to do becuase - like I have also said and keep saying because I'm so happy to have a break - school is finally out for the semester so I have extra time to spend reading.

I think that if everyone would read a bit of it and come up with something they agree with/disagree with and then hash it out that way it would be a lot better. Nothing gets solved with one-sided debates about things. And really, I don't care what side of the fence you're on - you can't trust a politician and what he says to you becuase they are only looking out for themselves and the interests of who will be voting them into another term

[JBougie]

Originally Posted by 2+2

And right under the youtube "screen" there's "This is a video response to Alleged Barack Obama Kenya Birth Certificate Document Displayed" LOL Sorry - cheap shot but I couldn't resist. If you watch that with due skepticism you'll notice that the single payer quotes were from a long time ago. He's quite open about the fact that he now considers it unfeasible due to how entrenched the insurance companies and others are.

What do Republicans have against this man? He seems like a good guy. He seems to have an ok wife and a couple of cool kids. He's smart. He seems to want to do what's best for all Americans and not just the rich and what a nice change that is. What's wrong?

I like his wife, and his daughters are adorable and I like the oldest one ... she seems to have the potential to be a very great example of a strong woman when she gets older. He seems like he'd be a cool ass dude to kick back and have a beer with - I just don't agree with his ideology. But, I can't even name on both hands all of the close friends and family I have that I would kill for but don't see eye to eye with when it comes to politics.

And, I don't know anyone who buys that crock of shit 'he's not an American!' - it's the crazy conspiracy theorists who sit back and think of these things while tin-foiling their windows to block out the CIA brainwashing rays from entering their houses that think of this stuff, I'm pretty sure. Anyone with .03% of a brain knows that the administration and the GOP would have absolutely blown this guy out of the water if he truly wasn't a US Citizen, I have been annoyed with that since the allegations first came out. I LOL'd in line at the grocery store yesterday as the headline of Globe or whatever that completely made-up 'news'paper is when I looked and the cover had a picture of some birth certificate and said 'OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE FAKE! PROOF INSIDE!' or something to that .... it was the dumbest thing I had seen in a long time.

[mo_feezy]

Originally Posted by JBougie

Now, not to be accused again of post skimming - but please explain to me how him stating that Obama is guilty of deception that would somehow mean that he doesn't believe Obama is a US Citizen.

because deception is the word of choice for the people implying that Obama is some sort of evil person (the antichrist, even).

[mo_feezy]

Originally Posted by JBougie

And, I don't know anyone who buys that crock of shit 'he's not an American!' - it's the crazy conspiracy theorists who sit back and think of these things while tin-foiling their windows to block out the CIA brainwashing rays from entering their houses that think of this stuff, I'm pretty sure. Anyone with .03% of a brain knows that the administration and the GOP would have absolutely blown this guy out of the water if he truly wasn't a US Citizen, I have been annoyed with that since the allegations first came out. I LOL'd in line at the grocery store yesterday as the headline of Globe or whatever that completely made-up 'news'paper is when I looked and the cover had a picture of some birth certificate and said 'OBAMA'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE FAKE! PROOF INSIDE!' or something to that .... it was the dumbest thing I had seen in a long time.

There was a recent poll that showed as many as 25% of respondents identifying as republicans believed he was not born in the U.S.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/distur...eliefs_abo.php
another one that finds basically the same numbers even though they didn't believe the findings of the first one. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-obamas-birth/

It is not just a couple of crazies.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by 2+2

And right under the youtube "screen" there's "This is a video response to Alleged Barack Obama Kenya Birth Certificate Document Displayed" LOL Sorry - cheap shot but I couldn't resist. If you watch that with due skepticism you'll notice that the single payer quotes were from a long time ago. He's quite open about the fact that he now considers it unfeasible due to how entrenched the insurance companies and others are.

What do Republicans have against this man? He seems like a good guy. He seems to have an ok wife and a couple of cool kids. He's smart. He seems to want to do what's best for all Americans and not just the rich and what a nice change that is. What's wrong?

Originally Posted by mo_feezy

I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here, based on your use of the word deception, you think Obama was not born in the U.S., am I right?

You need to seriously consider finding new sources of news information. Focus on something that doesn't have a host who cries on the air regularly.

Why are we suddenly talking about his birth certificate? I'm talking about health care right now. The video I posted has nothing to do with questioning his citizenship.

A long time ago? It was 2007 for God sakes.

Are you guys blind to what Obama says himself and just amazed at how he says it? My judgments of him come from the whole picture not just what he reads off of his handy dandy teleprompter everyday. You have to look at what he truly believes and he has come out and said these things over and over in the past. You just can't erase them.

And why is Fox News, Glenn Beck ect. bring brought up. I never said I got my info from that. I draw my own conclusions.

[2+2]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Why are we suddenly talking about his birth certificate? I'm talking about health care right now. The video I posted has nothing to do with questioning his citizenship.

A long time ago? It was 2007 for God sakes.

Are you guys blind to what Obama says himself and just amazed at how he says it? My judgments of him come from the whole picture not just what he reads off of his handy dandy teleprompter everyday. You have to look at what he truly believes and he has come out and said these things over and over in the past. You just can't erase them.

And why is Fox News, Glenn Beck ect. bring brought up. I never said I got my info from that. I draw my own conclusions.

The video I was referring to was from 2003 I think and I admitted referring to Kenya was a cheap shot (but only because it's so easy given the level of hysteria about this president).

Want to talk health insurance? Ok. Tomorrow you magically wake up as an insurance executive. You're paid a healthy salary and a tasty bonus. If you're smart and I'm sure you are how long will it take for you to start categorizing your customers like this?

1. Assets - people that represent a profit - their premiums exceeds their claims.

2. Liabilities - people you're losing money on but it might only be temporary. Maybe they've got an accident prone kid or they're just experiencing a run of bad luck.

3. OMG LIABILITIES - we're talking serious illnesses here that are going to really hurt the bottom line.

How long will it take you to grow some calluses and learn to "do what's right" for your company, your shareholders and your family?

Think you have health insurance? You have a health agreement that either side can cancel at any time for any reason.

[Bob Dog]

:

[mo_feezy]

Originally Posted by Kal-El

Why are we suddenly talking about his birth certificate? I'm talking about health care right now. The video I posted has nothing to do with questioning his citizenship.

A long time ago? It was 2007 for God sakes.

Are you guys blind to what Obama says himself and just amazed at how he says it? My judgments of him come from the whole picture not just what he reads off of his handy dandy teleprompter everyday. You have to look at what he truly believes and he has come out and said these things over and over in the past. You just can't erase them.

And why is Fox News, Glenn Beck ect. bring brought up. I never said I got my info from that. I draw my own conclusions.

The video was linked to a video about his birth certificate. That means that it was either posted by the same people, or watched by the same people.

These are fair things to bring up. I can discredit almost everything you have said so far. There is a group of about 30% of americans who agree with you. The media is making it look like it's a much bigger group, but it certainly isn't. Maybe you aren't a "birther," but most of the people who agree with you on this issue are.

It is important because it represents the problem with gathering faulty information from biased sources. You don't respond to any of the criticisms of anything you believe, you just respond to what you feel is an attack against you. You also refer to disagreeing with you as being "deceived" or "lied to" by the president which hints at something much deeper than disagreeing with his policy on health care. It's a fair game to play.

[Kal-El]

Originally Posted by mo_feezy

The video was linked to a video about his birth certificate. That means that it was either posted by the same people, or watched by the same people.

These are fair things to bring up. I can discredit almost everything you have said so far. There is a group of about 30% of americans who agree with you. The media is making it look like it's a much bigger group, but it certainly isn't. Maybe you aren't a "birther," but most of the people who agree with you on this issue are.

Again, nobody's talking about his birthplace and that topic as well as his race (which liberals can't seem to get over) have absolutely nothing to do with his policies and the fact that conservatives oppose those policies. Conservatives feel very strongly in upholding American values and the Constitution which is why we strongly oppose this radical systematic destruction of the United States and the principles she was founded upon. We love America and don't want another European country. What's wrong with that.

Originally Posted by mo_feezy

It is important because it represents the problem with gathering faulty information from biased sources. You don't respond to any of the criticisms of anything you believe, you just respond to what you feel is an attack against you. You also refer to disagreeing with you as being "deceived" or "lied to" by the president which hints at something much deeper than disagreeing with his policy on health care. It's a fair game to play.

I posted the video (please watch it since you clearly didn't) as a prime example of how Obama is currently DECEIVING Americans in what is his ultimate plan for America. The video of HIM saying the opposite of what he says he believes. How much clearer could it be? I'm not just throwing the word "deceived" around.

Again, he actually spells out how these gradual steps must first take place before total control is implemented (single payer). He knows that he can't just come and do it all at once. I can't make this stuff up. It's right there in front of you.

Don't believe for a second that all they want is a government option to compete with the current system.

BTW, I've never seen such a high % of liberals on a board. This is tough!

After all, the breakdown in America is 40% conservative, 20% liberal, 40% moderate. About 60% of Americans strongly disappove of this proposed health care reform.

[PaidTimeOff]

Originally Posted by JBougie

Have you read the bill? Actually READ the bill? I can sit there all day until I am red in the face that the damn bill says nothing about everyone receiving a flying purple pony - however, unless you READ that for yourself TAKE NO ONES WORD FOR IT because you might just be needing to get a stable to house your new flying purple pony.

No, I haven't read the actual bill (and by admission, neither have you) but it's generally accepted that factcheck.org is a highly HIGHLY reputable source. They lean neither left nor right, nor up or down. They aren't funded by any outside sources or lobbyists (unlike many of our countries politicians). I'm honestly not going to sit around reading a 1000+ page bill that's going through congress (this is what we pay our state senators and representatives to do) and if you're telling me you really were going to read all of it, I'm sorry but I just don't believe you.

Seriously, go to the article, check out their sources. If they aren't reputable, come on here and explain why. They simply compiled the facts in a convenient and easy to access place. A TRUE no-spin zone, if you will. Don't go around ragging on people for not reading the bill when you yourself have not even gotten through it. "Do as I say not as I do" much?

[Malaya1221]

imagine what i go through on this site

http://www.facebook.com/artnjocel122...5145124?ref=ts

[ChinoCharles]

Was there a lady on there that was claiming a swine flu shot was really a depopulation conspiracy?

Whackkkk jobbbsssss.

[Altitude]

Originally Posted by Malaya1221

imagine what i go through on this site

http://www.facebook.com/artnjocel122...5145124?ref=ts

I wouldn't spend too much time at that site. Your IQ is likely to drop just from having the page up on your screen.

[JBougie]

Really guys? Really? Because I can find plenty of f'n nut jobs on liberal sites, too. J-F'N-C way to be 'tolerant'

[JBougie]

Originally Posted by mo_feezy

because deception is the word of choice for the people implying that Obama is some sort of evil person (the antichrist, even).

de⋅cep⋅tion
  /dɪˈsɛpʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-sep-shuhn] Show IPA
Use deception in a Sentence
–noun
1. the act of deceiving; the state of being deceived.
2. something that deceives or is intended to deceive; fraud; artifice.

[JBougie]

Originally Posted by PaidTimeOff

No, I haven't read the actual bill (and by admission, neither have you) but it's generally accepted that factcheck.org is a highly HIGHLY reputable source. They lean neither left nor right, nor up or down. They aren't funded by any outside sources or lobbyists (unlike many of our countries politicians). I'm honestly not going to sit around reading a 1000+ page bill that's going through congress (this is what we pay our state senators and representatives to do) and if you're telling me you really were going to read all of it, I'm sorry but I just don't believe you.

Seriously, go to the article, check out their sources. If they aren't reputable, come on here and explain why. They simply compiled the facts in a convenient and easy to access place. A TRUE no-spin zone, if you will. Don't go around ragging on people for not reading the bill when you yourself have not even gotten through it. "Do as I say not as I do" much?

You have no reason to argue the subject after admitting that you didn't read it, and that you will just take the word of someone else.

You should run for congress - they seem to do the same thing.

[ChinoCharles]

There is no it. There is no bill. Hellloooooooo