will chevy volt decimate toyota yaris and others

[Yawesh]

the volt seems very good on paper.....

[yaris-me]

GM is on a come back. Only the economy and the unions can prevent that. I think the success of the Volt depends on the price of gas.

[slothman86]

GM is doing a really good job with twisting stats to make them look amazing.

Either way how does it perform after the 40 when the range extender kicks in?
I bet the 40 mile range is the best they could get from using only electricity. What if you don't drive like a grandma? How is your range decreased?

Oh and exactly how much is it?

[CKaelin]

Isn't the Volt like $40,000? Totally different market then Yaris.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by yaris-me

GM is on a come back. Only their horrible track record on reliability and craftsmanship and the fact that they would be bankrupt and dead right now if it weren't for the buyability of the U.S. goverment can prevent that.

There. Fixed it for ya.

[JBIZZ]

I doubt it. I think their CEO recently got fired. Almost time for bailout #2. I wonder how many times a company can go bankrupt. What would you rather have a Volt or G-35 or BMW. They're all the same price. I tell you what I would like is one of those Teslas.

[yaris-me]

Originally Posted by BailOut

There. Fixed it for ya.

[sqcomp]

It's a sad thing for me to say but...

ANY american car company is going to be a VERY hard sell for me. Until this Yaris, I've been tortured with American product. Very poor build quality, poor engineering, and hands down THE WORST service at pretty much any dealership.

I have had the very opposite experience with Toyota. I figure that my little Yaris is going to be the first step of a lifelong investment in the company. The car has had NO problems whatsoever...even if it did, I know that the dealership I take it to would take care of me with no questions asked. I plan on purchasing a Toyota Camary when this little Yaris had run it's course...in ten or fifteen years.

So, to the person who has a love affair with GM...take it to a hotel room. You've got a fickle partner in GM, have fun while it lasts (which won't be too long). I've got a healthy relationship with a REAL car manufacturer thank you very much.

Merry eFn Christmas GM! Don't let the door hit you in the a$$.

[advocate]

$12,000 car @ 40MPG = $28,000 left for gas

$28,000 / $3 per gallon = 9333.33 gallons

9333.33 gallons @ 40 MPG = 373,333.33 miles

When's the last time someone drove a Chevy over 375,000 miles?

[Yawesh]

Originally Posted by CKaelin

Isn't the Volt like $40,000? Totally different market then Yaris.

really...dang....i checked website, and price is 'not' out yet...heh......then it would take nearly two decades to actually meet the value of it.....

[Yar Is Word]

ReVolting!

[Black Yaris]

i am sure the environmental damage done to mine and refine the products used in those batteries will greatly out weigh the few advantages of the volt.

even the batteries for the Prius create more carbon emissions to produce than a full sized V8 SUV will emit in it's entire lifetime... and the batteries need to be replace 1-2 times in it's lifetime.

[cali yaris]

even the batteries for the Prius create more carbon emissions to produce than a full sized V8 SUV will emit in it's entire lifetime... and the batteries need to be replace 1-2 times in it's lifetime.

I'd like to see the source for that, please. I don't doubt it, but I want to read it myself from a reliable source.

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by Black Yaris

even the batteries for the Prius create more carbon emissions to produce than a full sized V8 SUV will emit in it's entire lifetime... and the batteries need to be replace 1-2 times in it's lifetime.

Negative. And before you bother posting the Hummer vs. Prius junk science:

http://www.grist.org/article/dust-to-dumb/

[slothman86]

So this is based on driving 40 miles a day only (how far does the range extender allow you to drive?)

Let's say...it extends the range 40 miles for sake of all fairness...

Good bye to long trips. 80 miles round trip? This car will be good for people who don't have to drive more than to work and back. Now you have to keep an eye on 2 meters of fuel.

but again in all fairness we have to look at all sides.
I guess you could stop every 40 miles after your charge is gone and pick up more gas.
We really need to know how efficient this gas to electric generator is how many gallons to kw. This will tell us true MPG.

It looks like this will become a conventional car anyway. How about all those people who don't own a home or live somewhere where you don't have access to a plug?
What happens if the power goes out?

There are so many reasons on why not to buy this car. It seems that the car will control your life and take away what conveniences a car was supposed to bring. If you travel less than 40 miles a day to work, You may want to look into Public Transportation or a bicycle. Not on a $40,000 GM.

Anyone have a good reason why to buy, besides the "environmental" reason?

[BailOut]

Originally Posted by slothman86

How about all those people who don't own a home or live somewhere where you don't have access to a plug?

Just like the world was not magically littered with fuel stations overnight, it will take time for the infrastructure for widespread EV use to grow. Such infrastructure will undoubtedly include pay-as-you-go meters at apartment complexes, strip malls, etc. Homeowners will likely be the early adopters due to easier access to outlets, just as we saw with the EVs in California in the late 1990s.

Originally Posted by slothman86

What happens if the power goes out?

The same logic applies to the question, "What if the trucks stop running?". Then you get no more gasoline fuel, just as happens when pipelines have issues, countries embargo each other, etc. This happens in my area from time to time because most of our gasoline and other commodities get shipped to us over the Sierra Nevada mountains from California. Even though NDOT and CalTrans have made huge leaps in the technology they employ to keep I-80 open sometimes things are just too much and they have to close it. Even when it is open doesn't mean every truck, or more accurately every truck driver, can make it over Donner Pass. When this happens some fuel stations run out of gasoline. Starbucks runs out of pastries. Grocery stores run out of some stock. Etc.

When pipelines have issues it can quickly manifest as a fuel shortage. This happened earlier this year in a corridor running from the Gulf coast of Louisiana up into parts of Iowa. For 5 days the gasoline didn't flow, and it only took 3 of those days for fist fights and gasoline thieves to break out in large numbers.

In other words, access to electricity for many of us is just as, if not more than, stable than our access to just about any other commodity, including trucked-in or piped-in gasoline.

[slothman86]

Originally Posted by BailOut

Just like the world was not magically littered with fuel stations overnight, it will take time for the infrastructure for widespread EV use to grow. Such infrastructure will undoubtedly include pay-as-you-go meters at apartment complexes, strip malls, etc. Homeowners will likely be the early adopters due to easier access to outlets, just as we saw with the EVs in California in the late 1990s.

The same logic applies to the question, "What if the trucks stop running?". Then you get no more gasoline fuel, just as happens when pipelines have issues, countries embargo each other, etc. This happens in my area from time to time because most of our gasoline and other commodities get shipped to us over the Sierra Nevada mountains from California. Even though NDOT and CalTrans have made huge leaps in the technology they employ to keep I-80 open sometimes things are just too much and they have to close it. Even when it is open doesn't mean every truck, or more accurately every truck driver, can make it over Donner Pass. When this happens some fuel stations run out of gasoline. Starbucks runs out of pastries. Grocery stores run out of some stock. Etc.

When pipelines have issues it can quickly manifest as a fuel shortage. This happened earlier this year in a corridor running from the Gulf coast of Louisiana up into parts of Iowa. For 5 days the gasoline didn't flow, and it only took 3 of those days for fist fights and gasoline thieves to break out in large numbers.

In other words, access to electricity is for many of us just as, if not more, stable than our access to just about any other commodity, including trucked-in or piped-in gasoline.

I understand the infrastructure isn't there for EVs...that's why I think it is a problem...Especially for people who don't own their own home. If those who live in apartments get this vehicle they will be at a disadvantage.

According to the NMHC, 33% of people in the US rent. Until there is some some of system to support EVs. At least part of this percentage will be excluded from buying the VOLT.

(Now most of the renters in my area are Military and they usually have new cars.)

But now consider the 66% of people who own homes. How many of those people would be in the market to buy the VOLT? How many of those drive 40 or less a day and can charge overnight?

So it takes 3 hours to charge using the 240 volt outlet and 8 hours using 120v. If I charged for an hour at a shopping complex that would only give me 5 miles of driving on 120v and 13 or 14 on 240. This would probably have some sort of cost as well. What happens when something comes up and you haven't charged your car yet? You still have to buy gasoline. Maybe if your employer would install a charge station it would reduce the risk of being stranded. But I doubt that would come without some sort of cost as well.

I can't help but think there is some sort of factor we are leaving out. That when applied to the real world will totally ground the VOLT.

So 78% of all Americans drive less than 40 miles per day. What percent of that 78% do not have the ability or convenience to charge overnight?

So basically GM's market is people who have the ability to charge overnight and that drive less than 40 miles per day and are willing to drop 40g's for a sedan.

Not to say that you can't run an extension cord from your apartment, but seriously it would suck the first time you forgot!

FOR THE FUTURE:

I would think a good idea is some sort of induction charging instead of pulling the cord out every time you had to charge for home owners(charging stations.) Which would be everyday for some people, but that's probably in the very distant future. Maybe the whole highway is one inductor like a metro rail and with the proper account you can pull electricity from it...?

The VOLT sounds like a great idea right now, but in practice I think It would be a 40K hassle. Especially since you STILL need oil changes and you STILL need to maintain the gas engine.

ref:
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-di...miles-per-day/

[BailOut]

The most ironic part of where this conversation is going is that it mirrors the discussions that took place in the early 1900s as gasoline-burning engines began to replace electric motors in vehicles. Just as not everyone that owned an EV at that time ran out and bought a gasoline burner, today's motorists will not all run out and buy an EV at the same time.

Yes, the Volt does have some shortcomings, which you have already pointed out well, but the simple fact is that we have to start somewhere. Most folks in the know believe that we have already achieved peak oil, which means that you and I will likely see the end of affordable gasoline in our lifetimes.

While I would much rather have a pure BEV with an 80-100 mile range that can charge off either 120V or 240V, the auto industry has balked at this time and again. GM is approaching it the only way they know how: by half stepping. What I find most interesting in all this is that they are the first manufacturer that supplies the U.S. market that is offering any sort of production-level EV when I wholly expected this to come from the Japanese 30 years ago.

Is the Volt perfect? Far from it. But it is indeed a step in the right direction, if only a baby step.