Denied waterpump replacement

[Hershey]

Spoke to the general manager at the TOYOTA dealership and said it was a regional tech that made the call and there was nothing more they can do . The other half called him back and left a message Saturday asking for their name ( regional tech ) and how to get in touch with him / her . Haven't heard a word as of yet . Traded in 2 cars for 2 new Toyotas at their store , this is what you get in return .

[Hershey]

Was told to do this by someone at the Toyota customer relations . Should it be refilled to Full line when cold or 3/4 full for expansion ( higher level ) when coolant heats up ? Says to FULL line .

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Was told to do this by someone at the Toyota customer relations . Should it be refilled to Full line when cold or 3/4 full for expansion ( higher level ) when coolant heats up ? Says to FULL line .

The passage you photographed is the right passage, but it is poorly worded -- it isn't specific enough. It allows for assumptions, which makes it ambiguous. Last year I noticed my reservoir level was just above low. I bought some of the pink fluid (already in that system from the factory) at my local Toyota dealership. I later (at home if I remember correctly) poured some of pink fluid into the reservoir to raise the level up to full. I accidently filled it above full. I was paranoid that I would be causing a problem by overfilling it. I don't remember how I uncovered the answer, but it wasn't something that was common knowledge at my huge local (closest) Toyota dealership. The answer was that I didn't need to worry because the reservoir (overflow reservoir) has its own 'overflow channel'. You'd miss 'it' if you weren't looking for it. Part of it is built into the underside of the reservoir cap and the rest of it is on the 'side' (outside) of the reservoir (part of the 'plastic' mold of the reservoir). This channel is the overflow mechanism for the reservoir (overflow reservoir), so you don't have to worry about allowing for expansion, can fill it up to the full line, and don't have to worry about overfilling it a bit. I guess the reservoir cap is included in the visual check (in the owner's manual) re making sure the cap is on, and on properly.....and a large amount of fluid escaping re the cap not being on, or on properly, would be one avenue of what they are calling a leak. IMO, one shouldn't have to guess re the wording in the owner's manual. It shouldn't be ambiguous.

[Hershey]

Cap is tight . Got an appointment with a different service department . Talked to the service manager about the experience at other shop . He said it shouldn't be loosing coolant because it's a sealed system . Also stated that the 1st service department should of topped off the resorvoir . Wait and see how this plays out . Hopefully they'll at least refill the resovoir if the waterpump isn't replaced .

[thebarber]

Good luck.

I had to switch Toyota dealers when I had tranny issues with my matrix XRS back in 05.

[Hershey]

^ Thanks ^

[jambo101]

You might want to maintain required coolant levels to the best of your ability until a new waterpump can be installed, that picture of the spray mark makes me think if the coolant is coming out that fast i'd probably not drive the car as you could possibly run out of coolant entirely in a few miles.,
i'll presume with that amount of coolant loss that its spraying from the waterpump gasket that theres a large puddle of coolant under the car if parked for a while?..

[fnkngrv]

I can confirm that the rates of return from Toyota are dependent upon the level of service required. I actually had the service manager at my local dealer tell me this a couple years back when I tried to bring mine in on the whole charcoal canister issue. I didn't pull the trigger on having the work done because it was a TSB and my car was already out of warranty so they wanted close to 500 to fix it. I am honestly glad that I do not live in an emissions area nor one of those ones that will fail your inspection if you have codes thrown because that alone leaves my CEL lit permanently without the readings for the turbo being installed.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Cap is tight . Got an appointment with a different service department . Talked to the service manager about the experience at other shop . He said it shouldn't be loosing coolant because it's a sealed system . Also stated that the 1st service department should of topped off the resorvoir . Wait and see how this plays out . Hopefully they'll at least refill the resovoir if the waterpump isn't replaced .

Good, sounds like you've now got a sane service manager. The 'overflow channel' I'm referring to (on the overflow reservoir) allows air, and potentially coolant (possible that might never happen), to pass and evaporation does occur (likely why your level went below full ---- mine took 6 years to evaporate from FULL to just above LOW). This new service manager realizes that the low fluid level and leak that seems to be the water pump can be unrelated, and is progressing in a logical manner. Good luck.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by jambo101

You might want to maintain required coolant levels to the best of your ability until a new waterpump can be installed, that picture of the spray mark makes me think if the coolant is coming out that fast i'd probably not drive the car as you could possibly run out of coolant entirely in a few miles.,
i'll presume with that amount of coolant loss that its spraying from the waterpump gasket that theres a large puddle of coolant under the car if parked for a while?..

Good idea. Vigilance is always good (I should probably practice it more often re my Yaris ) I haven't looked at the picture as referenced.

[Hershey]

Its sprayed coolant under the hood about 4 times ( cleaned off for observing ) . There's never been any coolant under the car . A friend has a 2010 3 door and the coolant has been above the FULL mark for over 130,000+ miles .

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Its sprayed coolant under the hood about 4 times ( cleaned off for observing ) . There's never been any coolant under the car . A friend has a 2010 3 door and the coolant has been above the FULL mark for over 130,000+ miles .

Wow. Sounds like Jambo really hit the nail on the head. Did you take pictures? Could be helpful, but it doesn't sound as though you'll need them with this new dealership and service manager. I haven't had any leaks, weeping, anything of that sort re my water pump or other parts of the cooling system. The overflow reservoir itself became 'cloudy' (making it harder to see the level....but I was able to reverify the level as it 'sloshed' when I started pouring in the coolant), but the reservoir hasn't ever leaked/no fluid escaping from below the top of the fluid level. Has your friend ever added any liquid to the cooling system at any time? I can count the number of times I've taken the radiator cap off on one hand over the entire time I've owned my Yaris, and all I did was peek at the top of the radiator. Pouring that coolant into the overflow reservoir, learning about the location of the 'overflow channel' on that reservoir, and taking the radiator (not reservoir) cap off a few times = only times I've ever physically touched anything to do with the cooling system (and I've never paid for any service either).

[Hershey]

No coolant added to his 3 door . Got picture of the spray . Here it is . Circled in Blue . Looks like a good amount .

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

No coolant added to his 3 door . Got picture of the spray . Here it is . Circled in Blue . Looks like a good amount .

Definitely continue pictures and noting conversations (names, dates, times, etc.). I hope you continue to get cooperation from the new service manager and don't get pushback from them re not experiencing a puddle of coolant like jambo thought (post #43) you'd have with that extent of spray.

[Hershey]

The other service center replaced it with no hesitation. The tech found coolant weeping from the pump. Had to wait 3 1/2 hours. They replaced the serpentine belt which we paid for with no charge for labor. Got a 15% discount on the belt and a new heavy duty 14 inch wiper blade. They filled the reservior above the FULL line by about 4 inches stating that it will get lower over time as it circulates and pockets of air get forced out. Is that correct? Did make a bit of a mess under the hood with coolant spilled on the splash guard, the intake manifold and on the engine cover. Could smell the coolant coming through the vents while driving on the interstate. After 90+ miles driving home everything seems fine. Will post pictures soon.

[Hershey]

Pics :

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

The other service center replaced it with no hesitation. The tech found coolant weeping from the pump. Had to wait 3 1/2 hours. They replaced the serpentine belt which we paid for with no charge for labor. Got a 15% discount on the belt and a new heavy duty 14 inch wiper blade. They filled the reservior above the FULL line by about 4 inches stating that it will get lower over time as it circulates and pockets of air get forced out. Is that correct? Did make a bit of a mess under the hood with coolant spilled on the splash guard, the intake manifold and on the engine cover. Could smell the coolant coming through the vents while driving on the interstate. After 90+ miles driving home everything seems fine. Will post pictures soon.

Great to know they made you whole! Obviously a dealer to stick with (when you need a dealer) if you can. And now we know the best universal reason why the coolant level can go down in a healthy system. The color is kind of funky, and the smell when spilled on a hot surface isn't great, but I've never had a cooling system in any car (all parts and the coolant in my case) perform as well as the cooling system in my Yaris. I don't remember if I first uncovered this with reading, or with a parts person showing me on the computer parts diagram that the dealer and other entities have, but at that point I could see how the underside of the reservoir cap and the side of the reservoir were molded, allowing for any escape. After learrning this, I realized I could just leave my overfill above the full line alone, and I wouldn't have any negative consequences (and I haven't had any negative consequences). I just checked the level of my reservoir for the heck of it (couple of hours since I drove the car) and the level looks even higher above full than when I put coolant in above the fill line....and that coolant add was the last physical interaction I had with or authorized re the cooling system

My previous descriptions of the overflow channel on the reservoir could have been better. On the cap part of the channel, you only see some of what I previously mentioned on the parts diagram. All you see on the cap are the two holes (the ends of the cap part of the channel) on the underside of the cap. One of the holes is basically centered over the neck of the reservoir and the other one is aligned directly on top of the reservoir part of the channel. This is how it looks on my 2007, other Yari might be different, but why change it within the 2nd generation unless that part had a high fail rate (seems unlikely). My 'filling the coolant over the full line initial panic' happened in September of 2012, and (as I mentioned above) my cooling system is still performing very well. I don't think you need to worry. I hope the new water pump lasts the life of your Yaris .

P.S. I hope this experience with the new dealership restores a bit of faith in Toyota for you. It is too bad you gave as much business as you did to a dealership that ended up not doing right by you.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Hershey

Pics :

My 'overfill with coolant above the fill line' in September brought the level to below where the dealership put your level, but my level as of a few minutes ago (after 2 + hours of not driving) is way above the level the dealership filled your reservoir to, and my system is performing well. It may be nothing (caused only by the angle of the picture) but it looks like (near the 'low end') the reservoir might have the start of a couple of cracks (not enough to yet leak). I was going to say have another pair of eyes look at it, possibly during the next service, but you do your own oil changes. The eyes of other members would help.