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Old 10-12-2009, 04:12 PM   #1
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Serious Autocrossers?

Not to suggest that you must be "serious" to enjoy autoX, but I'm looking for anyone who is/has also preparing their Yaris for SCCA classing beyond H-Stock.
I'm planning on running in ST all next year, and would like to run some regional events, maybe even Nationals, so proper prep is critical.

I can't do much else HP-wise, but I will be looking at class-legal chassis bracing and more suspension tuning/upgrades.

I'd like to start by getting your feedback about alignment specs that you've tried on the autoX track. Particularly the rear. I know many people like to run negative camber in the rear, but this would reduce rotation, which increases understeer, so not sure it is useful. What about rear toe settings?

I'm currently at -2.25 camber in front (each side) and zero toe. Thinking about trying a bit more, and maybe 1/16" toe-out. This car has to stay daily-driver -friendly.

After that, what ST-legal bracing options can anyone suggest or give feedback about?
While the Yaris is definitley not a class-killer in ST, I think it can be a competitive car. I ran less than 1.5 seconds behind a fully-prepped Focus SVT whose driver has placed at Nationals in that car before, so I dont' think we're out of the running completely.
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Old 10-12-2009, 04:56 PM   #2
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no "bracing" is legal in ST or even FSP classes.

front strut tower bar is your limit. skip that useless rear "strut" tower "bar" as it does nothing but weigh your car down.

alignment, if you want to help with rotation, throw a Penguin Garage camber shim under the front lower bolt on either side of the rear hubs. that'll give you a bit of camber, but more importantly dial-out some of the aggressive toe-in that occurs (and worsens with lowering of the car)
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:00 PM   #3
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You want to give some info on what your setup that you have now. I will give what I have picked up at different events and from other reliable sources.

A little toe out in the rear will help your car rotate more. Might want to think about getting some stiffer springs than your NF210's you already have a good wheel and tire setup. Lots of track time is one of the best things you can do.
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Old 10-12-2009, 05:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
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no "bracing" is legal in ST or even FSP classes.

front strut tower bar is your limit. skip that useless rear "strut" tower "bar" as it does nothing but weigh your car down.
an scca official classed me in FSP with my xbar, room bar, and under bars.
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:26 PM   #5
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Thx. I misspoke with the "bracing" term. My overall impression of the front strut tower bar is that it doesn't offer much improvement on our cars, due to the 1-bolt strut top design and the towers being attached to the firewall. Any mounts out there that actually tie the strut tops, and wouldn't that put a strain on the center shaft?
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Old 10-12-2009, 07:28 PM   #6
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an scca official classed me in FSP with my xbar, room bar, and under bars.
That may be correct, but I do know that "odd"vehicles often get thrown into the SP or SM classes at our SCCA events, since they aren't likely to be protested there. Not planning to X-brace, so should be safe there. Thanks.
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Old 10-12-2009, 09:14 PM   #7
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Tires. A rear sway bar helps. But setup is key. I run a slight bit of camber in the rear. Noticed a difference in rear grip.
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:13 PM   #8
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Tires. A rear sway bar helps. But setup is key. I run a slight bit of camber in the rear. Noticed a difference in rear grip.
Yeah, got all that. Kumho Ecsta XS 205/50/15 on 15x7 Volk TE37's, TRD rear sway.

When you say "rear camber" do you mean positive or negative, and do you know how much? How about toe? Thx!
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Old 10-12-2009, 10:56 PM   #9
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You can put any lowering spring shock combo(no coilovers) a TRD Rear Sway bar is legal in HS on Yaris but you should get the thickest sway bar possible for the yaris for the front and rear (Micro image I believe has a front) lowering springs, shocks, CAI, 18" wheels (anything to reduce body roll) My HS Yaris w/Rear Sway bar still loves to lift wheels off the ground.
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:08 PM   #10
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Ummm... The weight of an 18" wheel would kill a Yaris at auto-x. A front sway bar is going to cause more inside wheel spin. Check out this thread about the front sway bar.

http://www.yarisworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20049
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:10 PM   #11
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You can put any lowering spring shock combo(no coilovers) a TRD Rear Sway bar is legal in HS on Yaris but you should get the thickest sway bar possible for the yaris for the front and rear (Micro image I believe has a front) lowering springs, shocks, CAI, 18" wheels (anything to reduce body roll) My HS Yaris w/Rear Sway bar still loves to lift wheels off the ground.
Umm, that might be why you are winning by such a large margin. The only class-legal mod you listed there (by SCCA rules) is upgrading the front sway bar. That's why its called "stock." You are driving an ST car.

Also, 18" wheels are VERY heavy, so not good for acceleration. No, the TRD, or any other rear sway is not legal in stock. Sorry to rain on your parade. Your results are still great, and it sounds like you are a terrific driver, but if you are protested, you will lose.
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:11 PM   #12
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Oh... adjustable shocks are legal, but not lowering springs (in HS).
Anyway...back to the original thread...
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Old 10-12-2009, 11:48 PM   #13
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My car is completely legal all I have is a TRD Rear Sway bar(factory option) and sport exhaust which is allowed
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Old 10-13-2009, 07:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenacarato View Post
an scca official classed me in FSP with my xbar, room bar, and under bars.
you should be in a prepared class.

no TRIANGULATION is allowed.
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 10-13-2009, 08:54 AM   #15
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really, the last thing you need to worry about with the yaris is chassis stiffness. its a pretty damn good chassis actually. what you really want to do is improve grip, lose weight, and pick up power! i forget the exact rules of ST now, but its basically bolt ons.

grip: so grippy tires like the Toyo R1R is good at a 205/50/15 (i think 205 is the max width for ST?) there are very few shock choices available, with the Tokico Blues and HTS. The HTS has much higher valving and are adjustable. I have yet to see any data from any of the coilover companies shocks. there are very few springs available, the Teins are probably best for motorsports at 3kgF/3.5kgR. there are some sway bar options as well, front and rear through MicroImage. there are very few other parts available, so anything else will have to be creative and custom. as for alignment, crank in the front camber, toe out the front, and leave the rear alone at the minimum. The consensus around here is for the best handling, use springs, shocks, and rear sway bar but i havent followed anyones progress really so who knows how it works.

lightening: this is pretty limited as the car is already light. a light battery would probably help a ton. i havent looked into this area much, but i think its probably pretty limited in SCCA autox.

power: there are some bolt ons available, intake, header, pulleys, exhaust so on, all class legal.

now my opinion, i think the Yaris could actually be a decent ST car. you need grippy street tires, id say at least the Star Specs, but the R1R's are supposed to be better. ive even heard the new A08 is even better, but that will cost some coin. the current suspension up seems pretty tried and true, you should be fine with Blues, STechs, and a Rear bar. id try to get as much camber dialed in the front as you can, the car needs it. as for power, the mods will do a little, but dont expect a huge leap. i cant comment on the intakes, i think they would all perform about the same in general. the only header i would consider buying is the DC. i think an exhaust is a waste of money, if i wanted to do anything, id get a shop to make a straight pipe and just bolt it on when i go race to save a little weight. a pulley is nice, since its cheap, id get one. after that, we are pretty limited on class legal power mods. personally, id like to see what we can do with the camcon by power enterprises, it is used to modify vvti. may be able to pull a couple hp with it. the best thing we can really do is lighten as much as you can. i havent looked at the rules in a long time, but weight goes a long way! improves both speed and grip! id go with a light battery, lighter seats for sure. i need to look at the rules again and figure out where you can shed more weight before i can expound on that topic.

but yeah to get started: 15" light wheels, 205 grippy street tires, springs, shocks, rear sway bar should get you 90% of the way there. things like a dc header, pulley, intake, seat can all help a small amount in terms of performance. that is my personal set up and it has netted a couple 1st places in ST class at local events, but is in no way a nationals type set up. im experimenting with that now
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:40 AM   #16
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I have a slight bit of negative camber in the rear. I don't remember what degree, but I can pull out the sheet if I knew where it was or go to the shop that did it and pull my records.
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Old 10-13-2009, 09:44 AM   #17
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max width for ST is 245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnamerxx
I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:07 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaris-x View Post
You can put any lowering spring shock combo(no coilovers) a TRD Rear Sway bar is legal in HS on Yaris but you should get the thickest sway bar possible for the yaris for the front and rear (Micro image I believe has a front) lowering springs, shocks, CAI, 18" wheels (anything to reduce body roll) My HS Yaris w/Rear Sway bar still loves to lift wheels off the ground.
On a side-note, no, the TRD rear sway bar is not legal in Stock class. Automatically puts you into FSP, or one of the numerous ST? classes. Doesn't matter if you bought it from the dealership that way, the TRD rear sway bar is still a bolt-on sway bar, the car comes from the factory without any rear sway bar at all.
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