Changing individual gear ratios?

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

No, looking to build my spare trans with a 3.9fd for faster tracks. With the 4.3 and Kaaz gear set I am on the limiter (7500rpm) in 5th at some tracks.

Gotcha. In that case, you can either get the xD or an 03-08 Corolla/Matrix 5-speed, or buy new:
Ring gear = 41221-17040 or 41221-12470
Pinion shaft = 33321-17020 or 33321-12211

That still leaves you with getting the right 1st gear set to match, so a whole gearbox may be easier to source.

Out of curiosity, what's your 5th gear ratio?

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Gotcha. In that case, you can either get the xD or an 03-08 Corolla/Matrix 5-speed, or buy new:
Ring gear = 41221-17040 or 41221-12470
Pinion shaft = 33321-17020 or 33321-12211

That still leaves you with getting the right 1st gear set to match, so a whole gearbox may be easier to source.

Out of curiosity, what's your 5th gear ratio?

My current ratios are:
3.545
1.904
1.474
1.208
.961

Why would I need to change 1st with that final drive change? Going to the xD FD did not require a gear change.

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

My current ratios are:
3.545
1.904
1.474
1.208
.961

Why would I need to change 1st with that final drive change? Going to the xD FD did not require a gear change.

The XD output shaft and ring gear are different to the Yaris, they are larger you can"t drop a Yaris diff into XD tranny also one thing to look at is that the XD output shaft bearing is wider its the one that is next to the DIff so I don"t know if it cahnges the case or if it's just a different bearing.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

My current ratios are:
3.545
1.904
1.474
1.208
.961

Hmm. Have you considered going back to the stock 5th gear set (.815), or is it less hassle to swap the entire gearbox between races?

Why would I need to change 1st with that final drive change? Going to the xD FD did not require a gear change.

Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush. The '03-'08 C59 has a 3.166 1st gear ratio. The input shaft has the 1st, reverse and 2nd gear teeth integrated in it, so you'd have to completely tear down the pinion shaft to change 1st's driven gear. I guess that's only relevant if you're not using the xD. Your verb tense before made it sound like you hadn't done the swap yet, but this post's tense suggests you have. Maybe I'm just getting senile? =)

[RagnaCaT]

How can I know the ratios? I would like to recheck the XD gears cuase when I searched the tranny some parts are shared with the corolla but some are unique I think the first gear of the XD is one of them. I have still not assembled the tranny yet so id you guys need any info or pics let me know it's opened and covered in WD40

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Hmm. Have you considered going back to the stock 5th gear set (.815), or is it less hassle to swap the entire gearbox between races?



Sorry, I was in a bit of a rush. The '03-'08 C59 has a 3.166 1st gear ratio. The input shaft has the 1st, reverse and 2nd gear teeth integrated in it, so you'd have to completely tear down the pinion shaft to change 1st's driven gear. I guess that's only relevant if you're not using the xD. Your verb tense before made it sound like you hadn't done the swap yet, but this post's tense suggests you have. Maybe I'm just getting senile? =)

I have two complete trans set up with OSGiken LSDs, 4.3fd and Kaaz close ratio 3-4-5, so a compete swap is easier.

The jump from 4th to 5th is already to tall, the car does not like to pull 5th at all, so I need to keep the spacing but move the entire range up - this necessitates a FD change, or an 8500rpm rev limiter.

What is the xD 2nd? I don't use 2nd at most tracks, and only use 1st around the pits, so I could very likely just use the xD 1/2 combo.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

The XD output shaft and ring gear are different to the Yaris, they are larger you can"t drop a Yaris diff into XD tranny also one thing to look at is that the XD output shaft bearing is wider its the one that is next to the DIff so I don"t know if it cahnges the case or if it's just a different bearing.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "can't drop a Yaris diff into an xD tranny". Do you mean because of the output (pinion) shaft bearing, or is there some other dimension that doesn't fit? I'm confused because I can put a Matrix and Celica diff into my Yaris transmission housing and it seems to fit just fine.

My C56 and C59 have the same pinion bearing setup: the inner bearing race is held on the pinion shaft, so the bearing in the housing has a larger center opening with multiple smaller rollers. The Yaris/xB both use the shaft itself as the inner race and have a smaller center with fewer larger rollers. My camera battery is dead, otherwise I'd take pictures to show the difference. I'll see what I can do over the weekend for some pictures.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

I have two complete trans set up with OSGiken LSDs, 4.3fd and Kaaz close ratio 3-4-5, so a compete swap is easier.

The jump from 4th to 5th is already to tall, the car does not like to pull 5th at all, so I need to keep the spacing but move the entire range up - this necessitates a FD change, or an 8500rpm rev limiter.

What is the xD 2nd? I don't use 2nd at most tracks, and only use 1st around the pits, so I could very likely just use the xD 1/2 combo.

You've got some deep pockets, or some very generous sponsors!

It looks like the FD swap is the way to go, so you just need to find a donor with the right ratio. From what I can tell so far--no measurements yet--the shafts all have similar (or the same) splines, so fitting the gears shouldn't be a problem. As for 2nd, all of the C5X gearboxes I've found have the same ratio (1.904), regardless of 1st or FD ratios.

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "can't drop a Yaris diff into an xD tranny". Do you mean because of the output (pinion) shaft bearing, or is there some other dimension that doesn't fit? I'm confused because I can put a Matrix and Celica diff into my Yaris transmission housing and it seems to fit just fine.

My C56 and C59 have the same pinion bearing setup: the inner bearing race is held on the pinion shaft, so the bearing in the housing has a larger center opening with multiple smaller rollers. The Yaris/xB both use the shaft itself as the inner race and have a smaller center with fewer larger rollers. My camera battery is dead, otherwise I'd take pictures to show the difference. I'll see what I can do over the weekend for some pictures.

Yes the roller bearings sorry for poor explanation! I meant put the Diff only without the pinion shaft.
The pinion shaft of the XD is the same of the C56 & C59 thats way it uses the larger diff and I was able to source the Helical. The Xd is more like a corolla tranny than a yaris tranny.
I'm really bad at explaining things I'm the type that talks pointing at stuff with my finger, like that there and this over there.

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

You've got some deep pockets, or some very generous sponsors!

It looks like the FD swap is the way to go, so you just need to find a donor with the right ratio. From what I can tell so far--no measurements yet--the shafts all have similar (or the same) splines, so fitting the gears shouldn't be a problem. As for 2nd, all of the C5X gearboxes I've found have the same ratio (1.904), regardless of 1st or FD ratios.

Tell me how to calculate the ratio so I can check what the XD has.

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

You've got some deep pockets, or some very generous sponsors!

I came in to some spares when the 2012 got totaled.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

Yes the roller bearings sorry for poor explanation! I meant put the Diff only without the pinion shaft.
The pinion shaft of the XD is the same of the C56 & C59 thats way it uses the larger diff and I was able to source the Helical. The Xd is more like a corolla tranny than a yaris tranny.
I'm really bad at explaining things I'm the type that talks pointing at stuff with my finger, like that there and this over there.

Ok, just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing. The Yaris pinion *almost* fits the Celica bearing, but there's too much slop/play in the fit. Looks like I'll have to put the Celica pinion back together to make it work right.

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

Tell me how to calculate the ratio so I can check what the XD has.

Count the teeth on both gears of a set, divide output by input. That gives you xxx:1 ratio. I had to count some of them a few times to get it right, and had to use a marker to indicate every 10th tooth to keep from losing count.

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

I came in to some spares when the 2012 got totaled.

Bummer. That's a rough way to get a set of spares.

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Bummer. That's a rough way to get a set of spares.

I second that... Wish I never get spares that way the junker works fine!

Hey Jason@SportsCar if swap the engine you change the class right?

[Jason@SportsCar]

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

I second that... Wish I never get spares that way the junker works fine!

Hey Jason@SportsCar if swap the engine you change the class right?

Yes, we are limited to using the 1NZFE in H Production. However, it does get cams, a little head work and some other goodies.

I would love to build a Super Touring Lite Yaris with a 2ZZ. Someday.

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by Jason@SportsCar

Yes, we are limited to using the 1NZFE in H Production. However, it does get cams, a little head work and some other goodies.

I would love to build a Super Touring Lite Yaris with a 2ZZ. Someday.

Great stuff... I'm porting the 2ZR and checking out the Prius piston swap soon after I finish playing around with XD tranny the only part Ineed are the axels. I got a junker that will ship a used set to my Dad in texas for 139.99 so tomarrow going to make the order.

[RagnaCaT]

Originally Posted by CrankyOldMan

Ok, just wanted to make sure we were talking about the same thing. The Yaris pinion *almost* fits the Celica bearing, but there's too much slop/play in the fit. Looks like I'll have to put the Celica pinion back together to make it work right.


Count the teeth on both gears of a set, divide output by input. That gives you xxx:1 ratio. I had to count some of them a few times to get it right, and had to use a marker to indicate every 10th tooth to keep from losing count.

ok let me see if I get it FD is 68 x 18 for the yaris 3.77 and 67 x 17 is 3.94 ??? I remeber we counted the Yaris teeth and the both had 67 x 17 only that the XD ring gear was taller I might be wrong

[CrankyOldMan]

Originally Posted by RagnaCaT

ok let me see if I get it FD is 68 x 18 for the yaris 3.77 and 67 x 17 is 3.94 ??? I remeber we counted the Yaris teeth and the both had 67 x 17 only that the XD ring gear was taller I might be wrong

Yes, that's the right idea. I think you may need to count the Yaris again though, it should be 67:18 = 3.722. By "taller" do you mean the thickness of the gear, or taller/shorter gear ratio?