Keep your mouth shut.

[yaris-me]

A young guy at work ratted me out. A long story. I'm sitting in the cafeteria on break with M. A new nurse J comes up and ask to borrow money to pay for coffee. He doesn't have his wallet and his badge is not allowing the charge. M, palms up and shrugging his shoulders says he has no money. I lend J a dollar. He pays for his coffee and walks us out of the cafeteria. J never pays me back and I don't ask for the money.

I notice that J seems spaced out at times, like he is in his own world, humming or just grooving along. One day coming out of the locker room I smell alcohol. The OR after he leaves is a mess, machines still running, etc. He pages me to his room and I'm standing there and he says nothing, like he never paged me. He always seems to be having happy conversations with everyone and acts like he's and all around nice guy. I'm thinking he does alcohol or marijuana at times and no one knows.

Two weeks ago after J leaves the OR, the room is a mess, machines still running, I'm in the OR with A. I tell A, "Do you think J is doing alcohol or drugs." He says he wouldn't know. I go on to tell him what happened with J and what I suspect.

Thursday, I get called into the supervisors office and confronted with what I told A. N said that it was overheard. I admit what I said and J is called into the office and told what I told A. I'm asked what I want to do and I say, "I would just like to move on." J is asked what he wants done and he says he wants to move on. I'm told that I need to apologize to J, which I do and then leave the office.

I ask A if the told N about J and he says he never told anyone. I know that no one was around because I know the dangers of speaking slander with only speculation and no proof. I know A is lying to me and he must have told N.

In N's office J never demands an apology or tries to ask for a drug test to clear his name. He is happy to just let it go. N corners me in the hall way the next day and wants me to come forward in the future if I suspect anyone. I tell her that I was out of line speaking behind someones back and that I would not come forward with speculation. She tells me that it would be handled quietly and that I could just go straight to the house supervisor and the house supervisor would take care of it. Bull shit. I am now marked by one of the nurses and I have to walk a very straight line.

The moral is don't gossip on speculation about someone. Keep your mouth shut and mind your own business. As for A, he can hope that life treats him fair. Someone will rat him out someday.

[jdinrc]

Sorry, but I can't agree with keeping your mouth shut. I am the head of my company's quality assurance program and I've also have been in charge of our drug and alcohol prevention program for the past 15 years, so I know quite a bit about these situations. I have been involved in a few investigations, have had to terminate one employee, and have had to prevent a couple of employees from being hired because of their drug problems.

I'm sure the situation was awkward and embarassing to you, but you have a responsibility to your patients and co-workers. N handled it poorly. N should have talked to you alone, and talked to J alone as well. He should never have brought you two into the room together. In retrospect, it would have been better if you could have brought the matter to the supervisor's attention instead of another co-worker. Unfortunately they probably don't give you any training on how to deal with those situations.

If someone is drunk or high in the OR, there's at least one life on the line in there. You have an obligation to protect that life, and if the person you have to turn in gets help before he/she gets someone killed, then you have saved two lives.

I work at a company with two component repair stations where we work on parts for major airlines all over the world. Every time one of our parts goes on one of those planes, hundreds of lives depend on it. We are federally mandated to have a ZERO tolerance for drugs and alcohol. My daughter flies on those planes, and I'm not willing to risk her life so someone can get high.

It's not slander to tell your supervisor that you have witnessed someone's behaviour that is off, and is consistant with drug or alcohol use. Corporate policies usually require a non-prejudicial investigation, and a determination by someone specifically trained in recognizing the symptoms of drug/alcohol use and abuse as to whether or not a drug/alcohol test is required. At the very least, the supervisor is now aware of a potential issue and can keep an eye out so things don't get out of hand.

Also, it is illegal for anyone there to "mark" you. That type of harassment is called retribution and is illegal under federal law.

[kargoboy]

Wow, your supervisor handled that really poorly.
jdinrc said it all..there are patients at risk.
And bring the accused into the same room with you?
Unbelievably bad management.

[nemelek]

Tough place to be. I feel for you. In my exerience if you give a person enough rope sooner or later they will hang themselves. J wont be around that long. Management likes to take the bury their head in the sand approach. Next time try asking J if everything is OK. It wont change a thing but he might know someone is on to him.

[HTM Yaris]

F**k That . It is your obligation to ensure the safety of the patient . Your supervisor should be fired for not investigating . You should be ashamed of backing down .

I'm the supervisor in the OR where I work . I won't call you to my office . I will go to the lab and get a sterile specimen cup and then go straight to the suspected person and ask them to fill the cup with their urine if drugs are suspected . If you are suspected of drinking on the job I will escort you to the lab to get blood drawn . If they refuse or delay .......They will be fired immediately .

On the other hand , if a person comes to me and admits that they have a problem (without someone else telling me first), I will do everything to help that person . Yes , I will suspend that person without pay , but when they have completed rehab and counseling they can return to their job .

I have fired a couple of people for drugs/alcohol , one of them WAS a MD (Caught them stealing drugs ). Do I feel bad b/c someone decided to waste their career b/c they got high/drunk on the job ? NOT ONE BIT !!!!!! I take solace in the fact that I saved many people from potentialy getting PERMANENT damage .

Remember why you got into the health care field ? Because you care and you want to help people .

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Yeah, as health care professionals, we're required to report suspected A&D usage from other staff.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by HTM Yaris

F**k That . It is your obligation to ensure the safety of the patient . Your supervisor should be fired for not investigating . You should be ashamed of backing down .

I'm the supervisor in the OR where I work . I won't call you to my office . I will go to the lab and get a sterile specimen cup and then go straight to the suspected person and ask them to fill the cup with their urine if drugs are suspected . If you are suspected of drinking on the job I will escort you to the lab to get blood drawn . If they refuse or delay .......They will be fired immediately .

On the other hand , if a person comes to me and admits that they have a problem (without someone else telling me first), I will do everything to help that person . Yes , I will suspend that person without pay , but when they have completed rehab and counseling they can return to their job .

I have fired a couple of people for drugs/alcohol , one of them WAS a MD (Caught them stealing drugs ). Do I feel bad b/c someone decided to waste their career b/c they got high/drunk on the job ? NOT ONE BIT !!!!!! I take solace in the fact that I saved many people from potentialy getting PERMANENT damage.

Where I work we are exposed to voltages up to 13,800 volts with the ground fault "trip" set at about 8,000 amps. That's about 100 megawatts, enough to blast off arms, legs and fry people instantly. I'm not cautious about this stuff, I'm paranoid and will indulge any obsessive habits that suit me, including checking stuff three and four times.

Obviously there is no room for intoxicated or stoned people in production. We have a lot of alcoholics in production but not a single one drinks on the job. We would not tolerate it as peers and before we begin any task we have a discussion with management. They are trained to check us for any deviations and will escort us to HR if we appear intoxicated and then we take a trip for a drug screen. No exceptions.

If anyone is involved in an accident it's an instant drug test. We do ours through a contractor, with the entire "traceability" thing, including signatures and so on. I was involved in an accident once and got the "treatment". Very minor accident but I still got the pee testing.

A "specimen" cup sounds a bit shaky, if only because it could be adulterated and thus is suspect in legal procedings. Probably better if you all obtain a professional grade drug screen kit, which includes labels and safeguards.

I'm surprised that you all don't have a rehab problem that includes paid treatment. Most places where I worked in Dialysis had the ole one month dry out, with full pay, but only one time.

Gene

[HTM Yaris]

The specimen cup I am refering to has a thermometer built in . If your urine isn't within a certain temp range you are asked to repeat . Also the toilets/faucets have blue dyed water ( Yes , we have special bathroom for that ) Not to mention someone of the same sex will be in the bathroom to witness . Most hospitals have a full laboratory , much better than a test kit . Test kits are also susceptable to false positives . Also a test kit can easily be fooled with Lasix ( used for congestive heart failure , it in effect draws water directly from blood cells). A lab will detect the Lasix , a kit won't . If you don't have a prescription for Lasix ,well then you're busted .

Word to the wise , Lemon poppy seed muffins will show up as opiates up to two days after ingested . This was proved on Mythbusters .

If you are suspended with out pay , it doesn't mean you can't draw from your retirement plan .

[HTM Yaris]

Oh yeah , one more thing . If someone out there is thinking of getting their hands on some Lasix to pass a drug test , think again , Lasix will deplete your body of "something" that is essential to your survival . Meaning it will kill you !!! Thats why Lasix is presciption only .

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by HTM Yaris

The specimen cup I am refering to has a thermometer built in . If your urine isn't within a certain temp range you are asked to repeat . Also the toilets/faucets have blue dyed water ( Yes , we have special bathroom for that ) Not to mention someone of the same sex will be in the bathroom to witness . Most hospitals have a full laboratory , much better than a test kit . Test kits are also susceptable to false positives . Also a test kit can easily be fooled with Lasix ( used for congestive heart failure , it in effect draws water directly from blood cells). A lab will detect the Lasix , a kit won't . If you don't have a prescription for Lasix ,well then you're busted .

Word to the wise , Lemon poppy seed muffins will show up as opiates up to two days after ingested . This was proved on Mythbusters .

If you are suspended with out pay , it doesn't mean you can't draw from your retirement plan .

Yeah, you got the "real deal". I've had several such tests and remember the thermometer.

Nobody will "witness" the test but the bathroom is tiny and you're timed and the toilet water is blue. When we're asked to be tested we're under constant observation from the time we get hurt until we submit a specimen. We seal and sign the sealing tape. You don't get any time to pump some "clean" urine into your bladder. Ain't happening.

I hate drug testing but not as much as working with someone who could kill me by screwing up.

A few months ago some clowns decided to hook up a machine. They had three phase power, over 5,000 volts. They hooked up one end of a set of high voltage "cables" to the gadget and another set of cables to the power station.

The punchline being that they hooked up two different sets of cables. One end of each set went "no where", which meant that one set was just dangling out there in the breeze with over 5,000 volts on them.

They threw the switch, the system reacted, damaging an overload device and melting it internally. This device also knocked down the power. Thank God nobody was near the ends of the cables that had power on them, it was pretty dramatic.

We usually have a separate party of senior folks check your work before we apply power. That's a policy which some guys sometimes neglect. These guys circumvented the process. They were given little notes of appreciation in their employee files, everyone was retrained and then life went on.

Another thing that happened after this "incident" was that a whole bunch of guys refused to work with the guilty culprits. We have the right to do that, rejecting such folks because they're "dangerous".

Gene

[GeneW]

The worst one was when one bozo, who used to abuse Oxycontin (he had a script from a pill mill) decided to "ground out" a station. He then went about his business, forgetting to remove the ground cables. They were pretty heavy, heavy enough to trip the big breakers.

The sound the system made when he threw the breaker was awful. A very very loud sixty herz hum. The lights dimmed out for a moment and then went up.

I was sure I was going to smell smoking meat....

We came around the corner expecting to find dead folks but found two guys giggling like school children.

They got written up. One of them competed with me for my present job. The interviewers didn't mention him by name but said, "We're not even going to bother interviewing him...".

Do stupid stuff, pay the price.

Gene

[jdinrc]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Do stupid stuff, pay the price.

Gene

There you go. Unfortunately there are too many other people who never did the drugs or drank the alcohol, but end up paying the price.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by HTM Yaris

Oh yeah , one more thing . If someone out there is thinking of getting their hands on some Lasix to pass a drug test , think again , Lasix will deplete your body of "something" that is essential to your survival . Meaning it will kill you !!! Thats why Lasix is presciption only .

It's Potassium, and the means of computing how much to take to avoid dropping dead is pretty esoteric. A good Physician would tell you to go screw yourself if you asked them. A pill mill might help but if you drop dead it's on them.

Naturally there are workarounds for the workaround. If all else fails samples of hair can be taken. Those tests are expensive but lasix will not help you.

When it comes to drugs a body can run but they cannot hide. In the final analysis the monkey on your back will kick your ass if nobody else gets around to it.

Gene

[HTM Yaris]

Dude , you weren't supposed to tell them that

Back in the early 90's ( before we actually locked the drug carts in the OR ) , some vandal broke in to the OR and stole some drugs . What he didn't know was that he injected NORCURON , and as you probably know , it is a paralytic . His life ended in the parking lot . Must have been a horrible death , not being able to move or say anything while watching the world fade away .

[JBougie]

Originally Posted by HTM Yaris

Dude , you weren't supposed to tell them that

Back in the early 90's ( before we actually locked the drug carts in the OR ) , some vandal broke in to the OR and stole some drugs . What he didn't know was that he injected NORCURON , and as you probably know , it is a paralytic . His life ended in the parking lot . Must have been a horrible death , not being able to move or say anything while watching the world fade away .

Oh my gosh - that's horrible!

Well - kinda. It's natural selection really ... but it's still a really crappy way to go :( Do you think it was painful?

[JBougie]

PS - Yaris, you need to let them know. Your co-worker will be gone soon and the risk of harm to innocent people will be eliminated (at least from him). Your supervisor needs a serious job re-evaluation if they are going to handle the situation like that. It was poor management and poor investigation.

[yaris-me]

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback, especially when you're not taking any hits. Unless you have concrete proof, you might as well forget it.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Yup, low K levels can produce lethal dysrhythmias. Also goes for high K levels. You have to be stupid to take loop diuretics without knowing the adverse effects.