THE BEST AUDIO SPEAKER

[Alien Mantis]

And while we are still on this subject:

FOCAL "Utopia Be" has got to be the most overpriced stuff I ever seen.

What some people fail to understand is, there are only so many ways/materials you can build a speaker/amp/crossover with. Once you use the very best materials and engineering, where do you go from there?

Is that $1,500 FOCAL sub going to play so much nicer than a JL W7 ?
Nah. Maybe slightly different, and in some cases, the JL might sound better. We all know so many other factors come into play when dealing with this stuff. So once you have good components and amps, it's the acoustics of the vehicle and other installation factors that will make the difference. Besides, it's all subjective. What sounds really good to one person, might not sound as good to the next person.
Sound is "art", and as with all "art", you got your "art snobs".

Do you really want to spend $4,000 on 1 set of component speakers when you can spend $2,000 on the whole car and make it sound like the sky is falling? At what point does it just become "spending money for the sake of spending money"?
Do you like bragging to other people that you spent $20,000 on your car stereo system?

Take your car to Will Castro at Unique Whips and let him LACE OUT THAT WHIP! REMY will tune that shit up for ya!

lol

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by goku87

I used to like the sound all around, but I think my taste is slowly changing, probably due to the set-up I have in my apartment lol.

@ talnlnky:
What do you think about the Focal K2 speakers? You always preach about spending more money on speakers rather than the sub, and I was just curious as to your thoughts of some of those speaker sets costing > $2000 retail.

i've heard a few focals, but not many in an actual car. I can't really comment on them other than I remember the tweets being a bit harsh for my ears... one of the drawbacks of the metallic tweeters (need a lot of attenuation for me to like them).

I'm a big fan of a 6-7" mid that has a large linear stroke and the ability to play down low with authority. The reason I like this is because I want my mids to blend smoothly with my sub so I don't have 60hz playing at 100dB and 100hz playing at 80dB.

To be honest, I think to get the nice smooth transition is almost easier to go with a 3 way setup + sub using some components and then a midbass driver. Currently i'm hanging onto two pairs of midbass drivers for my ride. One is a 8" with 12mm x-max, the other is a 6.5" with 13mm x-max. I'd like to install the 8's, but being a 5spd, not sure I have the foot room to make kick pods, or the mounting dept in the door. My mids are actually home theater drivers that play 100hz to 15khz, lil 4.5" mids with something like 4-5mm x-max.

just about all component sets i've seen sold in stores leave me wanting more midbass.... I love the warm feeling you get when you have a very strong 80-150hz region.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by Alien Mantis

Technology has come a long way since then, but I still haven't heard a system that sounds better than that system did. I'm sure they exist, but I ask myself, what is the point?

with the exception of DVD/MP3 decks, and Class D amps there really hasn't been much improvement in the electronics side of audio... As for speakers... the only thing that's happened is a few new motor topologies which have done wonders at reducing distortion on high excursion subs... but the speakers that use that technology are very few and far between.

[Mobius1]

I know what u mean alien mantis. The system in my yaris is great and extremely acurate but it's missing that killer soundstage. My shop demo car is a ten grand system, it sounds incredible and it also makes me a picky bastard ;)

[sqcomp]

I was just writing a book on the costs of nice systems...this damned website timed me out!

I'll summarize. Mobius' statement on the cost being around $10K is correct. On my Yaris, I have $5650 invested into just the equipment. I've set aside around $6000 for install and other minor costs.

I remind you as well..I'm doing most of the install!!!

The cost for the system is in the details. To make a "sky is falling" sound doesn't cost that much. It's the control of said system that costs the big bucks (equipment wise). Why am I spending so much? Because I need a well planned, bulletproof, well engineered system. I'm not slapping in a saturday night special. An amplifier, cheap source, and a couple speakers...not on your life. I've been there and done that.

My money is being spent on the great equipment and more importantly meticulous install. We're talking spending money to be able to walk onto the IASCA SQi and SQc rookie classes and have a serious contender.

To put a cap on it, I've budgeted $11,640 for this system...not including dress up items that I'd get from Toyota or Micro Image. Honestly! You should see the equipment pile in the back of the shop with my name on it. The shop is going to be doing the alarm install on the car over the next few weeks. I've got to cut time off this project by having work done while I'm over here in the sandbox. I've got to be standing up with this by early June...

[sqcomp]

Also, when Mobius say's he's picky...I know exactly what he mens. My first (and only "official") job in the industry was at the only high end car audio shop at the time in our state. I'm talking Focal, Dynaudio, McIntosh, Symphoni, Zapco, PG (pre Ronin), Alpine F#1...

I was cursed with extremely picky tastes after that. My wife's Tacoma is a "saturday night special" like I referenced. One amplifier, a nice ReQ, a small sub, and two way components. The most time was put into the woofer enclosure and tuning. It sounds great. It wows her, and that's what matters. I really like that 8" ID sub, it's a punchy little speaker.

...it can sound better though...

That mid bass needs to be dedicated...

I won't touch it though, I've got a bigger project in "FrankenYaris" to deal with.

[goku87]

lol, "frankenyaris." i expect loads of pics.

[Alien Mantis]

talnlnky: great point about the mid-bass. I agree. 8's are great for that. Nice to send the exact freq's to the right driver. Always better than forcing one driver to handle a wider range than it should.

moebius: I use to envy and want those high-end systems in my car, but not so much anymore. I see the downside to all of it, and it isn't worth the expense and hassle to me anymore. Good enough is good enough. There has to be a stopping point. You can drive yourself crazy constantly upgrading to the next incremental level.

sqcomp: you are obviously doing your system for competition, so I would expect you to put as much into it as you possibly can. It sounds like a serious hobby/side-job for you. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone has their hobbies. My problem is I have too many hobbies. I don't need another one!

Fun to read all the posts here, see what you guys are doing with the Yaris.

[goku87]

Originally Posted by Alien Mantis

Fun to read all the posts here, see what you guys are doing with the Yaris.

I had what I think was a decent system lined up ... even had the subs purchased ... then my Yaris was destroyed lol.

[sqcomp]

AM...

Taln's love for the midbass is well founded. Mine is an 8.5" (yes it WILL fit in the doors)...I loke the idea of seperating the speakers to have them work a dedicated range. The three way setup comes in very handy when you're listening to an advanced track that has many sources of sound (i.e. an orchestra). The less frequencies each speaker has to handle, the better.

[pennyracer]

we all think a bit different im sure . i dont think focal is junk but a bit pricey i have a set of 3 ways in my yaris hb i do like them !!! shit you could play the speaker game all day im sure this thread should run for ever im sure :)

Originally Posted by Mobius1

I know what u mean alien mantis. The system in my yaris is great and extremely acurate but it's missing that killer soundstage. My shop demo car is a ten grand system, it sounds incredible and it also makes me a picky bastard ;)

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

AM...

Taln's love for the midbass is well founded. Mine is an 8.5" (yes it WILL fit in the doors)...I loke the idea of seperating the speakers to have them work a dedicated range. The three way setup comes in very handy when you're listening to an advanced track that has many sources of sound (i.e. an orchestra). The less frequencies each speaker has to handle, the better.

see... for you.. actually doing SQ stuff... I think you'd want to limit the number of drivers you have so you can have as few point sources as possible.... reduce the rainbow effect... I mean... If you get mids that have a linear motor topology built in, you can keep yourself from having crossover points in sensative/tricky areas... the normal x-over point for a tweet being in the 2khz - 5khz range can be thrown aside... the CSS 4.5 mid i'm using can be crossed over much higher... in fact, if being played on axis, hardly even needs a tweet (up to 20khz).

If you could get your hands on a 3" mid that had a low inductance linear motor you wouldn't need a tweet, mate that with a 8" midbass and I think you could do the whole spectrum in 2 drivers.... course, it would need some eq, and wouldn't get too loud, ... but you're sq.... you people don't get loud.

[sqcomp]

Oh hush yourself! Don't get loud? I've got plenty of headroom as well as power handling on those components. I'm gonna let those two IDQ 12's kock your socks off! LOL! It will have the ability to ge VERY loud...yet clearer than bottled water.

My crossover points are going to be something like this:

mid bass- 75 to mid 200s or 300s somewhere
midrange- 200s to something around 6K to maybe north of 10K
Tweeter- 6-10 on up

What do you think that Hybrid L4 is going to used for? Window dressing? That's the heart of the component set...and yes, I could EQ it out to get rid of the tweeter. But really...you should hear this tweeter!

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L4.pdf

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L1%20Pro%20SE.pdf

http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L8.pdf

That's the nice thing about these speakers...the ability of each one to go beyond what other speakers do and sound great while doing it. Now multiply that by three great speakers? You've got flexibility galore. I'm going to be concentrating on staging for the most accuracy and width that I can. I know the crossover points will fall into place with good tuning. I'll be paying attention to transfer function for the most part. Why? Like I said, I can make minor component movements to affect the response. The staging of these components will easily overcome location detection. I've got plenty of EQ to nudge something up or down depending on what the car and the location does to the response. The time alignment is another widow dressing as well...

I've got the Fairfield Four to demonstrate a realistic stage...along with an orchestra on tap, you're done for. So...When do I get you up to the 'Couv to put you to work on this for a few hours? The steaks, shrimp, and beer are on me.

[goku87]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

What do you think that Hybrid L4 is going to used for? Window dressing? That's the heart of the component set...http://www.hybrid-audio.com/Legatia%20L4.pdf

That speaker hates life @ 93Hz, almost 20Ω

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Oh hush yourself! Don't get loud? I've got plenty of headroom as well as power handling on those components. I'm gonna let those two IDQ 12's kock your socks off!

I've got the Fairfield Four to demonstrate a realistic stage...along with an orchestra on tap, you're done for. So...When do I get you up to the 'Couv to put you to work on this for a few hours? The steaks, shrimp, and beer are on me.

Please don't kock my socks off... i've got a woman...

as for when i'll make it up to your are for some work.... summer works well for me... anytime before that i'm not sure. Crazy busy with work, and doing everything I can to lighten the load on the fiancee who's currently 7 months away from being done with her masters program..... oh, and we're getting married in 5months.... so yeah... any time after june is great... have basketball tourney near the end of june, getting married a week or two before it.

[sqcomp]

What? The L4 hates life at 94Hz? Yeah...sure. Wouldn't you if you played from 17kHz down? If it was at home at under 94Hz you could have a point for a true full range driver. We don't though. I think that my crossover points will be fine though.

The mid playing from 150Hz all the way up around 15kHz looks very doable. We just have to listen to it to figure our what we like and don't like. I still contend that this is a VERY good speaker that can accurately play that range...and have the trophies to back it up as well...

I'll be operational and tuning by June I'm sure.

Don't wory about me knocking your socks off...I'll let the system impress you.

Oh and congrats on your wedding. Where is it happening?

[goku87]

I don't doubt your speaker choice one bit. People who sink this much money into a system either know exactly what they are doing, or don't have a clue.

You don't strike me as a moron lol.

[talnlnky]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

Oh and congrats on your wedding. Where is it happening?

bout an hour north of Spokane... and an hour south of the land of cannucks.

I'm surprised you plan on crossing your 4 that low... i'm using a 2xs for my crossover between my bass & midrange.... bought chips for about every 40hz starting from 150 and going up to about 280hz. I don't want to stress my mid too much, and I want the mid to blend well with the midbass... I think 200hz is going to be more realistic for me... but who knows until I get up in there and do it.

I'm actually tempted to go buy some resin & cloth and start making lil pods for my mids... if nothing else I could roll around town with my 4.5's playing 80hz to 15khz (with only a highpass). Would mean i'd finally have to install the denon and an amp... WOOT. Course... the speed I work... i'd prolly never finish making a grill for them.