K&N Filters

[kbockholt]

Hi everyone, I just joined the forum and have a question about K&N filters. Are they a good idea for the Yaris? I have a 2007 three door, I've heard the oil used on the filter can cause problems for the sensors. I'm looking for real world experince on this subject. Thanks in advance.
Ken

[SpaceShot]

I put one in mine when the car was new and one in my wife's Scion XB (which has essentially the same motor) at about 20K . I expect there is more oil floating around from the engine itself than from the filter. Both vehicles have 30K mi with no problems.

I can only verify about 0.5 Mpg improvement, but the better deal is less waste, and my wife thinks her car has a little more pep. Another advantage is the warning sticker that says `Permanent Filter - Do NOT dispose'. Useful for the 1 or 2 times that I don't change my own oil in the winter, and the shop tries to sell me an air filter, transmission fluid, and just about every other replaceable the car has.

Amazon.com or AutoAnything.com have reasonable prices and the cleaning kit of oil.

[auxmike]

I have 15,000mi on mine in my '08 and no problems.

[b_hickman11]

I have 35,000 on my 07 and 24,000 on my 08 and I have had no problems with their K&N filters or the cars.

[Hypermiler]

For the folks that have been running the K&N air filters for several thousand miles, have you seen an improvement in fuel economy, and if so, how much of an improvement?

Thanks!

[thebarber]

i use one in my stock airbox all winter...i get about +1MPG

i recommend k&n drop-ins vs stock paper in any car, its a great money saving item (mainly that you don't have to pay to replace the paper one)

[RedRide]

Although I haven't been running a K&N in my Yaris (as I just got it) I have had one in my Celica for the last 6+ years with absolutly no problems.

As I see it, engines have to "breath" freely and anything that helps like a K&N has be a +.

[llimonce]

you can use the filter without oil too .. i have two years cleaning with wather and soap and no problems

[RedRide]

Originally Posted by llimonce

you can use the filter without oil too .. i have two years cleaning with wather and soap and no problems

Perhaps but, it isn't recomernded as the oil helps trap the smallest particles.

Oiling the filter (applying the correct amount) is not dificult at all.

The oil "problem" is simply a myth perpetuated by competing filter technology vendors.

As I said in another thread, Toyota offers a K&N type filter themselves so, they obviously have no problems with it. A TRD filter is made exactly like the K&N and may even be made by K&N.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by RedRide

Perhaps but, it isn't recomernded as the oil helps trap the smallest particles.

Oiling the filter (applying the correct amount) is not dificult at all.

The oil "problem" is simply a myth perpetuated by competing filter technology vendors.

As I said in another thread, Toyota offers a K&N type filter themselves so, they obviously have no problems with it. A TRD filter is made exactly like the K&N and may even be made by K&N.

Unless the myths are based in fact; some certainly have to be. For example: customer with Avalon pulls in with engine performance issue and MIL on, checked code and data stream, needed at least 80% calculated engine load @ WOT, was way below that spec, MAF heated wires and temp probe were gunked up with sludged, cleaned MAF meter and installed WIX filter, cleared code and let customer test drive his car. He couldn't believe the new throttle response and wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed, and they come pre-oiled so if it was over-oiled it was done so at the factory; nothing else could have put that kind of oil build-up in the MAF meter so quickly, other than the non-paper element that was upstream a few inches.

My view on oiled filters, for a stock Yaris like mine, is it'll save money when you're able to re-use it, but it's sure not worth it if you're thinking it'll give you big savings at the pump and will give you power that can be felt.

...and I'm sure the dealers have no problems charging customers for a computer analysis, cleaning, and sometimes even replacing MAF meters; pretty sure they stock and sell them all the time.

[ka0sx]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed

your mistake is believing the customer, customers are lying snakes when it comes to getting their cars fixed they will always claim, "i did nothing out of the ordinary...." and finish with, "then all of a sudden...."

I have used oil-gauze filters on so many different cars and bikes that i have owned and have never had a problem. I have only seen a problem on cars with this kind of filter when the person fucked up.

I have also personally experienced the "i don't know it is not driving normally" we popped the air box and pulled the filter and there was a puddle of oil sitting in the bottom of the air box.

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by ka0sx

your mistake is believing the customer, customers are lying snakes when it comes to getting their cars fixed they will always claim, "i did nothing out of the ordinary...." and finish with, "then all of a sudden...."

I have used oil-gauze filters on so many different cars and bikes that i have owned and have never had a problem. I have only seen a problem on cars with this kind of filter when the person fucked up.

I have also personally experienced the "i don't know it is not driving normally" we popped the air box and pulled the filter and there was a puddle of oil sitting in the bottom of the air box.

I believed the customer because he was about 70 years old, driving an Avalon, believing the salesman that pushed the K&N filter on him because it'd get him about "10 to 20 percent improvement in fuel economy" ...and I've also seen lots of vehicles with blow-by and PCV problems during the last 26 years, this Avalon showed only signs of fresh, clean sludge build-up on the heated wires, no dirty engine oil anywhere in the air intake. And I've also used many K&N and Green filters on my cars over the years, I've just reached a point where I want a filter that does what it was meant to do; filter ...not worried about the HP and fuel savings claims that don't match what's written on the fancy box; they're a nice sound mod and they're re-useable :)

[GeneW]

I had one for a brief while. I read some studies which showed that the filtration rate of a K&N is not as effective as some other filters. I went out and bought one of those instead. I change the filter about every other oil change or when I can no longer see daylight through it, which ever comes first.

Gene

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Unless the myths are based in fact; some certainly have to be. For example: customer with Avalon pulls in with engine performance issue and MIL on, checked code and data stream, needed at least 80% calculated engine load @ WOT, was way below that spec, MAF heated wires and temp probe were gunked up with sludged, cleaned MAF meter and installed WIX filter, cleared code and let customer test drive his car. He couldn't believe the new throttle response and wanted to know what I did...told him I removed his K&N filter that he said was just installed, and they come pre-oiled so if it was over-oiled it was done so at the factory; nothing else could have put that kind of oil build-up in the MAF meter so quickly, other than the non-paper element that was upstream a few inches.

My view on oiled filters, for a stock Yaris like mine, is it'll save many when you're able to re-use it, but it's sure not worth it if you're thinking it'll give you big savings at the pump and will give you power that can be felt.

...and I'm sure the dealers have no problems charging customers for a computer analysis, cleaning, and sometimes even replacing MAF meters; pretty sure they stock and sell them all the time.

Why would people think they will get "big savings" at the pump? K&N does not make a claim on MPG increase on the drop-in filters. Here is a quote from the K&N paper work that came with my filters and can also be found on their web site:

Fuel Economy
Fuel economy testing and mileage claims are a tricky business. Just ask the EPA, whose website states, “EPA’s fuel economy estimates are designed to allow consumers to comparison shop. Your fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA’s fuel economy rating. This is based on a number of factors, such as weather, road conditions, your driving and maintenance habits, and your use of air conditioning.” A lot of exaggerated claims are made in the marketplace by products claiming to improve gas mileage. K&N makes no general fuel economy claims, however we encourage you to try our air filter for yourself. Keeping air filter restriction as low as possible can be an important tool, among others, for maintaining high mileage.

Also you said that K&N filters are suppose to give you "power that can be felt," but K&N states, "Our automotive OE (original equipment) replacement air filters generally add 1-4 horsepower." So I wouldn't call 1 HP something you can "feel."

By the way, how old was the Avalon and how many miles did it have?

[1stToyota]

Originally Posted by b_hickman11

Why would people think they will get "big savings" at the pump? K&N does not make a claim on MPG increase on the drop-in filters. Here is a quote from the K&N paper work that came with my filters and can also be found on their web site:

Fuel Economy
Fuel economy testing and mileage claims are a tricky business. Just ask the EPA, whose website states, “EPA’s fuel economy estimates are designed to allow consumers to comparison shop. Your fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA’s fuel economy rating. This is based on a number of factors, such as weather, road conditions, your driving and maintenance habits, and your use of air conditioning.” A lot of exaggerated claims are made in the marketplace by products claiming to improve gas mileage. K&N makes no general fuel economy claims, however we encourage you to try our air filter for yourself. Keeping air filter restriction as low as possible can be an important tool, among others, for maintaining high mileage.

Also you said that K&N filters are suppose to give you "power that can be felt," but K&N states, "Our automotive OE (original equipment) replacement air filters generally add 1-4 horsepower." So I wouldn't call 1 HP something you can "feel."

By the way, how old was the Avalon and how many miles did it have?

Yes, I've never seen any Yaris owner post about thinking of getting a K&N filter, or just installing one, and asking what kind of savings will they see and how much of a HP gain is it worth ...and never read it here, even on this thread?, where a Yaris owner wrote that they can feel a difference after installing a K&N filter... I don't know why THEY think they can feel the power and expect to see a good savings at the gas pump ...like I stated before, they're a nice sound mod, and you can re-use them :)

Don't remember exactly on the Avalon, sure wasn't a beater; fairly late model (I do rembember that it was OBDII) and appeared to be very well taken care of. Main thing about the Avalon was that the MIL was on, couldn't get above about 55% calculated engine load @ WOT on the datastream, and had fresh oil buildup on the sensor, not the typical gray/tan dry ash coating that I come across.

[b_hickman11]

Originally Posted by 1stToyota

Yes, I've never seen any Yaris owner post about thinking of getting a K&N filter, or just installing one, and asking what kind of savings will they see and how much of a HP gain is it worth ...and never read it here, even on this thread?, where a Yaris owner wrote that they can feel a difference after installing a K&N filter... I don't know why THEY think they can feel the power and expect to see a good savings at the gas pump ...like I stated before, they're a nice sound mod, and you can re-use them :)

Don't remember exactly on the Avalon, sure wasn't a beater; fairly late model (I do rembember that it was OBDII) and appeared to be very well taken care of. Main thing about the Avalon was that the MIL was on, couldn't get above about 55% calculated engine load @ WOT on the datastream, and had fresh oil buildup on the sensor, not the typical gray/tan dry ash coating that I come across.

Don't remember exactly?? Thats not good for your argument. It could have had 200,000 miles on it and he had just got a brand new K&N filter and we blame ALL on the filter and nothing else? It could have been used as a pace car for NASCAR or on some dirt track...or maybe it could have been used as a Cab or a rent car. But I guess it doesn't matter since All evidence points to the K&N

[GeneW]

Friend who has a Dynamometer claims that K&Ns on average do nothing for horsepower, sometimes even slightly reduces it. One of his friends put it best - "If GM could gain some HP from K&N they'd at least offer it as a factory option, if not a Dealer option".

Gene

[scape]

the drop-in filters claim no hp gain, however they do have an airbox replacement filter, which may gain a few hp b/c they are changing the shape and length of the air inlet+piping (the box is gone i believe), on k&n's website they have a 'dyno chart' to prove it-- but I strongly doubt any claims to be translatable to in real world usage