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Old 12-29-2008, 01:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Return of the Yarii View Post

Now, if you want your motor to survive and be reliable then you will need a bottle warmer, purge kit, aux fuel pump, etc. which adds at least $500 to the cost of a kit and now your at 1000+ not including tuning. Also since you mention track use keep in mind your 1st couple of passess and last couple of passes on the bottle will not be consistent and if your drag racing consistency is the key.

Personally N2O is great if used correctly. Like I said I've sprayed a bone stock Eclipse to my turbo ZX1100 to my single turbo Mustang w/plenty of success. Its all about purchasing a high quality kit and the additional parts to safeguard your engine. And then there is the tuning.....
Exactly...I would not recommend "learning lessons" on a daily driver. I highly recommend doing a lot of research and speaking with a lot of "experienced" NOS guys. To do it right, learn out to use it, tune the car to use etc. is time consuming, costly and at the end of the day STILL no guarantee that you won't do damage or toast the motor.
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Old 12-29-2008, 11:39 PM   #20
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OK,

Here are some thoughts that will let your engine live another 2 years.

Are you going to get engine managment??

If not the 75 shot is out of the question. It is not a question of if, but when the motor will grenade at that power level.

If you will not be running any engine managment, the following will apply.

Run the smallest shot you can to start.

Get colder copper plugs. 1-2 steps colder.

The individual runner setup will be cool, but will be a lot more expensive and time consuming to set up. Be aware.

Get a scangauge or something to moniter fuel pressure. You may need a better fuel pump, and fuel pressure will be critical to an untuned setup.

With a really light shot, at MINIMUM run 91/93 octane when you are going to spray.

Get someone with a wideband to check the car on the road when you spray to make sure you aren't running too lean. I would consider an EGT gauge or in car wideband setup for safety.

Cross your fingers.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:53 AM   #21
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Thanks Ashley!!!

What are our management options? Will a Camcon or AEM FIC suffice?
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Old 12-30-2008, 10:10 AM   #22
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i ran a 35 shot..

beware.. running nitrous will make you want REAL power (turbo or SC)
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Old 12-30-2008, 11:06 AM   #23
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Thanks Ashley!!!

What are our management options? Will a Camcon or AEM FIC suffice?
You need something you can adjust fueling AND timing. This is going to be the key to running a shot bigger than 35.

You can probably do the 35 shot without engine managment to try it. The colder plugs and better gas will probably suffice. The car runs slightly rich and the timing is not too agressive on the factory tune so I think you could get it done.

Last edited by largeorangefont; 12-30-2008 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:26 PM   #24
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I'm pretty sure a 35 wet shot won't kill the car. He could probably do it with no extra tuning, but he needs to check it when it goes together to see if it is actually safe.

I don't see him needing fueling mods and all the extra crap with such a light shot. If the fuel pump can support the Blitz SC, the 35 shot should should be fine. I really think the best and simplest option would be to build the 35 shot setup with a single nozzle and get a feel for everything. I would consider a window switch to turn it on and off.

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Old 12-30-2008, 01:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by largeorangefont View Post
I'm pretty sure a 35 wet shot won't kill the car. He could probably do it with no extra tuning, but he needs to check it when it goes together to see if it is actually safe.

I don't see him needing fueling mods and all the extra crap with such a light shot. If the fuel pump can support the Blitz SC, the 35 shot should should be fine. I really think the best and simplest option would be to build the 35 shot setup with a single nozzle and get a feel for everything. I would consider a window switch to turn it on and off.
my fuel pump is supporting 10psi of nice cold air.. i'm sure even a 75shot wouldn't warrant a larger fuel pump on a wet setup..
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I hate people like you (xbgod) because your the reason I don't come to this board. You spout nonsense and lies and people who don't know any better hold you in high regards because they can't tell the wheat from the chaff.
you nailed it sir.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:08 PM   #26
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Interesting reading on this thread. Here are some useful nitrous facts that might be helpful. I ran 2 full 10-lb bottles through my yaris already with no adverse effects and have run literally hundereds of nitrous tests through the years on a variety of different applications (including 15 bottle through my stock 5.0L Mustang). Running the old 120-hp set up on my Yaris (stock exh man, down pipe and no ex, custom version of intake, CAI and lighweight Lucas Oil), we then added a 40-hp shot from a universal NOS EFI (single fogger) wet kit. The result was 162 wheel hp and 155 wheel ft-lb of torque. For definitons-wet kits combine fuel and nitrous into single (or multiple) fogger nozzle(s), regardless of where they are placed in the intake tract. Dry systems add nitrous only through the fogger nozzle(s) and provide the extra fuel through the injectors (usually by increasing fuel pressure by applying nitrous pressure on top of regulator). The multi-port fogger system on the intake was done more for a show car than for actual use since the nitrous and fuel jets would have to be so small. Running a single nozzle wet kit set up to provide 40-hp shot would be easy and provide no adverse effects provided the air/fuel is correct. In my testing, the stock jeting provided by NOS (and others) is usually rich. Keeping botle pressure (by heating) up to 900 psi cures this probelm, but the NOS system tends to err on the safe (rich side). Premium fuel is necessary, cooler plugs are also a good idea. Nitrous use is safe provided the following rules are considered-activate the nitorus no lower than 4000 rpm (lower activation speed will build torque but will also increase chance of detonation). Run good gas-don't put regular unleaded in your nitrous car. A can of octane booster is always a good idea-especially for track use or on hot days. Don't get greedy on hp level-40-hp shot is very fun, but as you go up in power relative to factory power output, chances of damage increase (this works with boost too!) Hope this helps.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:11 PM   #27
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BTW-No additional fuel pump is necessary at this (162-hp) power level. We have run higher power outputs with turbo motors running the stock fuel pumps, so no pump upgrade is necessary. Adding an inline pump is not an option since the stock fuel system is returnless and pressure control is through pulse-wdith modulation of stock pump. Better option for more fuel is to increase capacity of stock pump (by replacement) or add Kenne Bell boost-a-pump.
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Old 12-30-2008, 02:48 PM   #28
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off topic: does Walbro make an in-tank fuel pump that fits this car?
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:24 PM   #29
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I've never removed the stock pump so I'd have to lok at it to see if the common Walboro (PWM) pumps will bolt in. Usually the problem is the filter screen or discharge tube sizing, but it would be nice if the Toyota pump was similar to the ones we use in the Hondas, Mustangs and Camaros. Otherwise a Kenne Bell boost-a-pump will increase flow by 50% over stock pump.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaofdisasta View Post
Anyone know if you can run that with the stock mani, and go thru ur CAI?
i noticed no one answered ur question so i will.

i had an interesting conversation with a guy who had a cobalt at a car show last spring. this was around the time when the intake mani was first introduced. so i was telling him about that and then the conversation moved to nos. his intake manifold was plastic like ours also, and he said that a lot of cobalt guys that run nitrous have destroyed their engines and or manifold due to the nitrous collecting at the bottom of the manifold and igniting. he had a name for this thing that happens but i forgot it.

moral of the story is nitrous with the stock intake manifold would not be a good idea. i think small shots may be fine and proper use of the kit should cause no damage.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:16 PM   #31
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now someone answer this

would i be able to do a wet nos kit on the intake manifold of the blitz supercharger?
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:43 PM   #32
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You can run a wet system with your supercharger. The nozzle should be positioned before the throttle body and the nitrous will help lower the inlet charge temperature. Basically it will act as an intercooler. Use of nitrous with a composite intake is fine as long as you don't experience a back fire (usually excessive rich or lean mixture). The backfire can damage composite intakes (ask the LS1 guys), but runing nitrous itself will not damage intake manifolds.

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now someone answer this

would i be able to do a wet nos kit on the intake manifold of the blitz supercharger?
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:18 AM   #33
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Here is what can happen to an intake manifold when a nitrous backfire occurs. This Mustang has a cast alumnium manifold.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/0...t-shot_777.htm
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:20 AM   #34
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Woah. -gulp- Haha.
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:26 PM   #35
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The Advantages of Nitrous on an Engine

The questions and answers below show the advantages of a Nitrous system on an engine as requested by a forum member.

" How about you start a thread stating the "positives" involved in setting up and using Nitrous? I would love to see that."

Q: Will Nitrous affect engine reliability?
A: The key is choosing the correct H.P. for a given application. A kit that uses the correct factory calibration does not usually cause increased wear. As the energy released in the cylinder increases so do the loads on the various components that must handle them. If the load increases exceed the ability of the components to handle them, added wear takes place. NOS kits are designed for use on demand and only at wide open throttle. Nitrous can be extremely advantageous in that it is only used when you want it, not all the time. All NOS kits are designed for maximum power with reliability for a given application.

Q: Can I simply bolt a nitrous kit onto my stock engine?
A: Yes. NOS manufactures systems for virtually any stock engine application. The key is to choose the correct kit for a given application; i.e., 4 cyl. engines normally allow an extra 40-60 HP, 6 cyl. engines usually work great between 75-100 extra HP, small block V8's (302/350/400cid) can typically accept up to 140 extra HP, and big block V8's (427-454) might accept from 125-200 extra HP. These suggested ranges provide maximum reliability from most stock engines using cast pistons and cast crank with few or no engine modifications.

Q: What are some of the general rules for even higher HP gains?
A: Generally, forged aluminum pistons are one of best modifications you can make. Retard ignition timing by 4-8 degrees (1 to 1-1/2 degrees timing retard per 50 HP gain). In many cases a higher flowing fuel pump may be necessary. Higher octane (100+) racing type fuel may be required as well as spark plugs 1 to 2 heat ranges colder than normal with gaps closed to .025"-.030". For gains over 250 HP, other important modifications could be necessary in addition to those mentioned above. These special modifications may include a forged crankshaft, a high quality race type connecting rods, a high output fuel pump dedicated to feeding the additional fuel demands of the nitrous system, and a racing fuel with high specific gravity and an octane rating of 110 or more. For more specific information about your application, please contact the NOS technical dept.

Q: How does nitrous work?
A: Nitrous oxide is made up of 2 parts nitrogen and one part oxygen (36% oxygen by weight). During the combustion process in an engine, at about 572 degrees F, nitrous breaks down and releases oxygen. This extra oxygen creates additional power by allowing more fuel to be burned. Nitrogen acts to buffer, or dampen the increased cylinder pressures helping to control the combustion process. Nitrous also has a tremendous "intercooling" effect by reducing intake charge temperatures by 60 to 75 degrees F.

Q: What kind of testing or research is performed on NOS products?
A: NOS maintains a complete research and development center including computerized dynamometer equipment as well as a nitrous/fuel flow testing facility. In addition, NOS is actively involved in many aspects of racing; working closely with many top name racers to develop the most powerful and reliable nitrous systems in the world.

Q: How much performance improvement can I expect with a nitrous system?
A: For many applications an improvement from 1 to 3 full seconds and 10 to 15 MPH in the quarter mile can be expected. Factors such as engine size, tires, jetting, gearing, etc. will affect the final results.

Q: How long will the bottle last?
A: This largely depends on the type of nitrous kit and jetting used. For example, a 125 HP Power Shot kit with a standard 10 lb. capacity bottle will usually offer up to 7 to 10 full quarter-mile passes. For power levels of 250 HP, 3 to 5 full quarter-mile passes may be expected. If nitrous is only used in 2nd and 3rd gears, the number of runs will be more.

Q: How long can I hold the nitrous button down?
A: It is possible to hold the button down until the bottle is empty. However 15 continuous seconds at a time, or less, is recommended.

Q: When is the best time to use nitrous?
A: At wide open throttle only (unless a progressive controller is used). Due to the tremendous amount of increased torque, you will generally find best results, traction permitting, at early activation. Nitrous can be safely applied above 2,500 RPM under full throttle conditions.

Q: Does NOS manufacture 50-state legal nitrous systems?
A: Yes. In fact, NOS has several EO numbers for various kits such as the 5.0L Mustang and 305/350 GM V8's, etc. In addition, there is no need to remove any smog equipment when installing an NOS system. For more information call the NOS tech line.

Q: Will I have to re-jet my carburetor on my car when adding nitrous?
A: No! The NOS system is independent of your carburetor and injects its own mixture of fuel and nitrous.

Q: Is nitrous oxide flammable?
A: No. Nitrous Oxide by itself is non-flammable. However, the oxygen present in nitrous oxide causes combustion of fuel to take place more rapidly.

Q: Will nitrous oxide cause detonation?
A: Not directly. Detonation is the result of too little fuel present during combustion (lean) or too low of an octane of fuel. Too much ignition advance also causes detonation. In general, most of our kits engineered for stock type engines will work well with premium type fuels and minimal decreases of ignition timing. In racing application where higher compression ratios are used, resulting in higher cylinder pressures, a higher fuel octane must be used as well as more ignition retard.

Q: Is there any performance increase in using medical grade nitrous oxide?
A: None! NOS recommends and sells only the automotive grade, called Ny-trous Plus. Ny-trous Plus contains a minimal amount of sulfur dioxide (100 ppm) as a deterrent to substance abuse. The additive does not affect performance.

Q: Is it a good idea to use an aftermarket computer chip in conjunction with an NOS System?
A: Only if the chip has been designed specifically for use with nitrous oxide. Most aftermarket chips use more aggressive timing advance curves to create more power. This can lead to possible detonation. You may wish to check with the manufacturer of the chip before using it. The top manufacturers, such as Hypertech do make special chips for use with nitrous.

Q: How long does it generally take to install an NOS kit?
A: The majority of NOS kits can be installed using common hand tools in approximately 4 to 6 hours. NOS instruction manuals are by far the best in the industry; and include specific installation drawings, wiring diagrams, and bottle mounting procedures as well as performance tips and a thorough trouble shooting guide.

Q: Which type of manifold is better suited for a plate injector type of nitrous system, single or dual plane manifold?
A: As long as the manifold doesn't interfere with the spray pattern of the bars, either will work fine in most cases. The distribution is better with a single plane at high RPM. If your goal is to increase power by more than 150 HP, the single plane manifold is better.

Q: Does nitrous oxide raise cylinder pressure and temperatures?
A: Yes. Due to the ability to burn more fuel, this is exactly why nitrous makes so much power.

Q: Are there any benefits to chilling the nitrous bottle?
A: No. Chilling the bottle lowers the pressure dramatically and will also lower the flow rate of the nitrous causing a fuel rich condition and reducing power. On cold evenings you might run on the rich side. For optimal running conditions, keep bottle pressure at approximately 900-950 psi. NOS has a nitrous pressure gauge that allows you to monitor this. If you live or operate a nitrous system in colder temperatures, it may also be a good idea to purchase a bottle heater kit, part #14164. Generally, ambient temperatures of 80-90 degrees F will allow for best power potential of NOS kits.

Q: Are there benefits to using nitrous with turbo or super-charger applications?
A: Absolutely! In turbo applications, turbo lag is completely eliminated with the addition of a nitrous system. In addition, both turbo and superchargers compress the incoming air, thus heating it. With the injection of nitrous, a tremendous intercooling effect reduces intake charge temperatures by 75 degrees or more. Boost is usually increased as well, adding to even more power.

Q: How complete is an NOS kit?
A: NOS prides itself on offering the most complete systems on the market today. They include virtually every component that may be needed for a complete installation; parts such as extra long carburetor studs, gaskets, pipe tap, fuel hose, brackets, filters, fittings, hardware, wiring, 10 lb. bottle with Hi-Flo valve, comprehensive instruction manual, and all other major components are standard in every NOS kit.

Q: What is the difference between a standard and an NOS Hi-Flo bottle valve?
A: The orifice of the Hi-Flo valve is much larger than the standard valve allowing for a larger flow of nitrous. With a small orifice valve a pressure drop could occur when nitrous flow is high; causing surging or inadequate nitrous flow. The NOS Hi-Flo valve eliminates this problem. NOS Hi-Flo valves are standard in all NOS kits.

Q: What affect does nitrous have on an engine with considerable miles on it?
A: This depends largely on the actual condition of the engine components. Any performance modification to an engine that is worn out or poorly tuned will have detrimental effects. However, an engine in good condition, with good ring and head gasket sealing, should be able to use nitrous without any abnormal wear.

Q: Will the use of nitrous oxide affect the catalytic converter?
A: No. The increase in oxygen present in the exhaust may actually increase the efficiency of the converter. Since the use of nitrous is normally limited to 10-20 seconds of continuous use, there usually are no appreciable effects. Temperatures are typically well within acceptable standards.

Q: Will the percentage of performance increase be the same in a highly modified engine compared to a stock engine when using the same NOS kit and jetting?
A: Not really. In most cases the percentage of increase is greater from a stock engine because it is not as efficient as the modified engine in a normal non-nitrous mode. However, since the effects of nitrous oxide magnify the output of any engine, the total power output will be much higher in the modified engine.

Q: Can high compression engines utilize nitrous oxide?
A: Absolutely. High or low compression ratios can work quite suitably with nitrous oxide provided the proper balance of nitrous and fuel enrichment is maintained. NOS kits are used in applications from relatively low compression stock type motors to Pro-Modifieds, which often exceed 15 to 1. Generally, the higher the compression ratio, the more ignition retard, as well as higher octane fuel, is required. For more specific information talk to one of our technicians.

Q: Can service station fuel be used for street/strip nitrous oxide applications?
A: Yes. Use of a premium type leaded or unleaded fuel of 92, or greater, octane is recommended for most applications. Many NOS systems are designed for use with service station pump gas. However, when higher compression or higher horsepower levels are used, a racing fuel of 100 octane, or more, must be used.

Q: What type of cam is best suited for use with nitrous oxide?
A: Generally, cams that have less exhaust overlap and more exhaust duration. However, it is best to choose a cam tailored to normal use (when nitrous is not activated) since 99% of most vehicle operations is not at full throttle. There are special cam grinds available for nitrous competition which have more aggressive exhaust profile ramping, etc. Since cam selection depends largely on vehicle weight, gearing, etc., it is best to stick to cam manufacturers' recommendations for your particular goal.

Q: Are NOS kits applicable on late model EFI cars?
A: Yes. In fact NOS has by far the most comprehensive selection of nitrous kits available for these cars. Call for your specific application if you do not see it listed.

Q: What type of nitrous system is better; a plate injection system or a direct port injection system?
A: The advantages of a plate system are ease of installation and removal, ability to transfer easily to another vehicle, ability to change jetting combinations quickly, and in most cases, provide you with all the extra HP you will ever need (75 to 350 more HP). In some cases, such as in-line type engines with long runners, a direct port type system is advisable for maximizing distribution. Also, where more than 350 HP is needed, our direct port Fogger systems will provide the ultimate in distribution and power (up to 500+ HP). Direct port injection is also desirable when the system is hidden under the manifold.

Q: Should I modify my fuel system to use nitrous oxide?
A: Most stock fuel pumps will work adequately for smaller nitrous applications. It is important to check to see if your pump can flow enough fuel to your existing fuel system (whether carburetor or fuel injected), as well as being able to supply the additional fuel required by the nitrous kit under full throttle conditions. It may be a good idea to dedicate a separate fuel pump to the nitrous kit.

Q: Which is the best position to mount a nitrous bottle?
A: NOS bottles come with siphon tubes and, in order to maintain proper nitrous pickup, it is important to mount the bottle correctly. We recommend mounting the bottle at a 15 degree angle with the valve end higher than the bottom of the bottle. The valve end of the bottle should point to the front of the vehicle and the valve knob and label should face straight up.

Q: How important is it to use nitrous and fuel filters in a kit?
A: Some of the most important components of any nitrous system are nitrous and fuel filters. To keep contaminants from attacking the solenoid or plugging up a jet, NOS nitrous filters feature a special stainless steel mesh element from the aerospace industry.

Q: What are the advantages of using nitrous compared to other performance options?
A: The cost of many other performance options can put you in the poorhouse. Dollar for dollar, you can't buy more performance with less money than nitrous. With a nitrous system, performance and reliability can be had for a much more reasonable price while still retaining the advantage of a stock engine during normal driving. And, Nitrous offers tremendous gains in torque without having to rev the engine to excessive rpm's. These factors help your engine last longer than many other methods of boosting horsepower.

Q: Does NOS manufacture kits for motorcycles, water craft, or snowmobiles?
A: Absolutely. Call or write NOS to obtain our special catalog devoted specifically to these applications.

Q: What kind of pressures are components subject to in a typical nitrous kit?
A: Pressures often exceed 1,000 psi. This is why NOS uses only high pressure tested aircraft quality components like stainless steel braided Teflon lines throughout its system.

Q: How do I know how much nitrous is left in the bottle?
A: The most reliable method was is to weigh the bottle to determine how many pounds remain. When a bottle is near empty (about 20% or less nitrous remaining) a surging effect is normally felt.

Q: What is the function of the blow-off safety valve on the bottle?
A: It is very important not to overfill a bottle; i.e., a 10 lb. capacity bottle should not be filled with more than 10 lbs. of nitrous oxide by weight. Over-filling and/or too much heat can cause excessive bottle pressures forcing the safety seal to blow and releasing all the contents out of the bottle.

Q: Will I have to change my ignition system?
A: Most late model ignition systems are well suited for nitrous applications. In some higher HP cases, it may be advisable to look into a high quality high output ignition system.
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:35 PM   #36
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clever. I think I know enough now to go set it up and run it (even though I'll admit that I am green about the ears in regards to tuning cars). Thanks for the input....Knowledge is power!
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