Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site
 

 


 
Go Back   Toyota Yaris Forums - Ultimate Yaris Enthusiast Site > Technical Forums > Performance Modifications
  The Tire Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2017, 05:55 PM   #55
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
No issues with the xd cables as they are longer. You can use the Yaris cables with the Yaris dogbone (i originally did) but because I want a long tube header I wanted more room at the fire wall so I installed the xd dogbone. This moves the engine forward more which than stresses one of the Yaris cables. Xd ones have no issues
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 10:41 PM   #56
CrankyOldMan
2ZR swap. DO IT! Ask how!
 
CrankyOldMan's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 Meteoric Metallic HB
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 1,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by heeroyuy01195 View Post
Have you had any issues with the "under hood" SSK and the xD cables?
The engine bay SSK is starting to wear on my setup after about 5 or 6 years. I've only greased it once or twice, so that is probably a contributing factor. The cable length isn't perfect, but it fits well enough with the SSK bracket.
CrankyOldMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 11:18 PM   #57
heeroyuy01195
Post count means nothing.
 
Drives: AW11, NCP91, Old Motorcycles
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 327
Thanks for the info montague and cranky, saw that Garm has a few SSK's for sale on his ebay store but wasn't sure how it would play with the swap later on. Looks like I'll be picking up one of his kits; my NST never felt right.
heeroyuy01195 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 11:22 PM   #58
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
It probably never felt right because they never made a bracket to replace the one bracket that bolts to the trans and hold the cable ends.

Garm is the only person I know of who has/had them and they change the angle that the cable where it attaches to the shift levers and makes for smoother shifting
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2017, 04:36 PM   #59
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
slight update:

I got back from a week long vacation and went on a short trip around the corner to find my car making a loud whistle form the engine bay when at idle. Checked the engine bay and found out that the polyethylene hose I used to plumb my dual catch cans ended up disintegrating, causing a vacuum leak which was the source of the whistle.

I looked online for oil resistance of various hose materials since finding 3/8" ID oil resistant rubber hose around here isn't as easy as I thought. Turns out PVC is oil resistant. The reason I didn't go with PVC braided line the first time was because the PE line was much more rigid than the PVC and I didn't want it to collapse under vacuum at idle.

Turns out the vacuum isn't strong enough to collapse the PVC braided hose and it is much easier to work with when running lines. Engine sounds good and is back to normal function as are my catch cans. When I removed the intake manifold I still had a slight amount of oil in it but my intake valves and chambers were extremely clean for an engine with 95k km on it thanks to my constant WOT pulls. I am collecting about 1-2 ounces of oil every 3-4k km or so.

My long term fuel trims still constantly sits at -10-12% meaning the ECU is reading that I am running rich and it is pulling fuel. Not a big deal as this is not nearly enough to trip an engine code but it is something to note. This happened on my 1nz too after I got my customs exhaust made. Doesn't seem to have any exhaust leaks either.
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2017, 06:48 PM   #60
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
AR Trackbox install - Cusco RS LSD and 4.3 Final Drive

I was able to get a hold of Tom's built transmission as he had an opportunity to buy a 6spd C60 (follow his thread HERE)



The transmission was torn down and inspected by Tom and any worn parts were replaced. It has a Cusco RS clutch type LSD and a Scion 4.3 final drive. This effectively increases the rpm by about 500-600 in any gear which transfers more toque to the wheels. This makes for a faster car but at the loss of fuel economy and increased engine noise at highway speeds.



The LSD will completely lock the axles under acceleration and even in the event of one front tire being completely lifted off the ground. This will allow me to throttle out of corners on the track and use the throttle to control over steer even more so than before. It also has the benefit of given me a true 2wd car in the winter when driving on snow/ice. The factory open diff is really a one wheel drive once you come across some ice or slippery snow.



I don't have access to a lift so pulling the trans absolutely sucks. The 2zr swap is wider which give you little room at all to pull the trans. I used my engine hoist to support the 100lbs transmission while I wrestled it out from under the car. Don't even try to do this by yourself without a hoist...ask me how I know. The clutch was in great condition still so I left that alone and just cleaned off the clutch fork and all contact surfaces and regreased.







I have put a couple hundred km's on the new trans so I figured I'd post about my thoughts so far.

The good:
The very first thing I noticed is that under throttle, even partial throttle, the steering wheel wants to correct itself straight much more than before, almost forceful. Under WOT the torque steer is seemingly completely gone. It feels like I have an extra 500lbs holding down the front end to the road and 2 foot wide tires upfront. Hard to explain but the car feels much more firm and planted.

The open diff made the front end feel so light like the tires were barely touching the road. Anything more than 60% throttle in first gear would send the right tire into a spin. I feel an increased sense or confidence in the car and increased control of where it wants to go.

The bad:
noise, whines and clunks. If Tom wasn't so good at what he does or if he didn't have this in his car previous to me owning it, I would think it's broken. It is virtually silent when coasting even in full lock turns. any throttle applied and the front end locks up leading to inside tire squeal (on my winter rubber right now). When throttle is applied on a turn you hear all sorts of noises and slight vibrations. This is the plates engaging/slipping and is normal.

Accelerating in 1st or 2nd gives me a loud whine from the left of the engine bay near the trans/axle area. It sounds like my trans has straight cut gears and happens any time I give it more than 20% throttle (which is obviously all the time). I hear a whine and feel small but loud vibrations from the left front end. This is when the tires are pointed straight and it goes away when I reach 5500 rpm. Only in first and second gear.

It also clunks/knocks in between 1 and second gear shifts under hard acceleration. This is likely the clutches engaging and disengaging according to other forums online. I personally do not mind the noises, it is a daily driver but I rarely drive my wife and kid in it as we always use her vibe since it's our family vehicle. I enjoy more feedback from my car anyways.

I get both front wheels slipping under WOT in 1st gear since I currently have my winter tires installed. In the summer this shouldn't be an issue with some proper UHP summer tires. I have noticed that giving a decent amount of throttle on a corner will introduce under steer. This is easily controlled on dry pavement by easing off the throttle but on wet or slippery surfaces I could see this causing people to hit curbs and medians if they aren't expecting it and throttle hard mid corner. Crank and Tom both warned me about this so I plan on getting used to it in a snowy parking lot this winter.

All in all I'm happy with the trans and I can't wait to get out to the track next spring. This little car is becoming quite the weapon and an absolute blast to drive. It now pulls like a moster when I downshift into 4th going 110km/h to pass someone as it puts me right above 4k rpm which is in the power band on the 2zr. FWIW it revs at just under 4k rpm going 120km/h

I'll post back later on my new fuel economy numbers.

Plans for the future include BC coilovers and TRD suspensions mounts front and rear. I also just picked up my new summer rims from across the border. 15x7.5 +35 which I'll be wrapping in bfgoodrich gforce sport comp 2's. My rims I sold we're 7" wide and this will be the widest i can fit with my rear spacers and rear rolled fenders

__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...

Last edited by tmontague; 11-21-2017 at 09:33 PM.
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2017, 08:12 PM   #61
atomic_hoji
 
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 210
Nice score on the 5MT w/LSD! Likin' the purple paint job. Guess that means Tom's really sure the Celica 6MT build is going to work.. lol

New wheels look slick to. Congrats on the new toys.

-- Adam
atomic_hoji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 05:26 AM   #62
LTHatch
 
Drives: 2013 Yaris Hatchback L
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Newark NJ
Posts: 229
What transmission fluid did it come with? If possible would you mind doing a few 0-60 runs?Curious to see what a 2zr with that 4.3 LSD can do vs a lightly modded 1nz.

Those wheels look damn good, how much do they weight?
LTHatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:10 AM   #63
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
I am currently using Cusco's own fluid which is stupid expensive. Once that is drained I'll be using Amsoil MTG which I've been using for the past year. I called Amsoil and was told it should be fine with an lsd and I have been happy with its shifting performance plus it is a much more realistic price.

I'll do some 0-60 runs as soon as I have my summer tires on this spring and I also plan on doing a dyno run this spring. If i do 0-60 pulls now I just spin too much with my winter rubber.

Rims weigh about 11.6 a corner. It makes a huge difference in initial take off from a stop.

My butt dyno says the 2zr with 4.3 fd is much faster than a heavily modified 1nz. My 1nz had a header and full exhaust, intake manifold, 1zz TB and air intake so it's as far as you can go in regards to bolt ins with that motor. So my butt dyno has a good comparison to relate it to
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 07:24 AM   #64
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
Some updates regarding the clunking and noise on 1st and second gear accel when going straight. Turns out this is due to my drivers side axle binding and not actual diff chatter.

I had this issue after the swap due to the trans being moved an inch or so closer to the drivers side from the 2zr being wider than the 1nz. No one else with the swap seems to have ever experienced this problem which is really strange.

This binding would only happen on sharp right turns and would cause a banging and vibration as the trans would be forced to move since the axle was maxed out with compression.

I temporarily fixed this by installing the yaris trans and doggone mount back in which pulled the engine and trans back toward the passenger side. I currently still have those mounts in my car.

I think that extra torque from the 4.3 fd and lsd are making this issue apparent again. However it only happens on very slight left or right turns when accelerating in 1st which is why I am convinced the extra torque is the reason I have this issue again.

Bottom line I need to find a proper solution as this binding caused my cv boot to tear. I spec'd some cv axles online and turns out a '98 tercel have the same splines and is 0.9" shorter than the yaris axle. I'm going to pick one up in the next week and this should fix any binding I have by giving the axle shaft more room to move under stress.

I'll post back my results
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 02:55 PM   #65
ern-diz
 
ern-diz's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Liftback
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: CA all day
Posts: 3,212
Man, you came to chew bubble gum and kick some ass --and you're fresh out of bubble gum. This thread is going to be a fun follow.
__________________
On Instagram

On Wheelwell

#TeamWheelwell #ForTheBuild
ern-diz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 11:17 AM   #66
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
Exclamation Axle bind issue solved!

This post may get a bit lengthy but I'll post a tl;dr at the bottom

So quick synopsis: ever since I did the 2zr swap I would experience axle bind on sharp left turns. This is a common problem on slammed Honda's and lowering as well as negative camber can lead to the issue depending on axle specs from factory. The CV axle is meant to compress and lengthen within a range so when the suspension moves up and down and the axle need to shorten and elongate you don't experience any issues. When the axle is forced to shorten more than its specs then the axle binds and this will force the transmission to move over and back repeatedly as the axle turns. This is felt by a slamming vibration and a loud consistent thud noise from the front left of the car. When I would spin the front tires (or just the right tire) I would get a violent banging in the engine bay which turned out to be the trans slamming the subframe.

I have no idea why I was the only one experiencing this since about 4 or so others who have done the swap didn't seem to have this issue. Tom is lowered and has about -1 more degree of camber up front than I have and he has never experienced the issue. The 2zr is wider and pushes your trans closer to the drivers side by an inch or so. I temporarily "fixed" it by installing my yaris dogbone bracket and trans mount on the car instead of ther xd ones I had originally installed. This "pulled" the engine over to the passenger side but the dogbone mount was now at a severe angle and the engine had to by forced over with a huge prybar to get the bolt through the trans mount bushing. Keep in mind both of those mounts on my car are full poly filled.

This seemed to reduce the noise and banging so I left it for the time being. Fast forward to my new trans with lsd and 4.3 final drive, the noise came back as did the banging. I thought at first that was how noisy clutch type lsd's are but after a day of driving I realized something was wrong and it was the dreaded axle bind. It seems the extra torque and force on the left axle is causing the issue to come back and when I re installed the trans it likely didn't go back to the exact same place as it originally was so it may have lead to the binding.

Thanks to Cranky and Tom's help I found a site to look at spline count and shaft length of CV axles (autozone is the website). I found a 2000 corolla had matching inner and outer splines but was 1.5" shorter and had an abs tone ring (possibly removable). If I went too short I risk popping out an axle which leaves it flinging around under the hood and likely cracking the trans housing or worse. Not good especially since I do track days with this car.

I tried my luck with a 98 Toyota Tercel and bingo! Same splines, option for no abs and reported 0.9" shorter. I picked one up last night an a local auto parts store for $84 CAD. and as you can see in the pics below it actually only appears to be about 0.5" shorter than the Yaris axle. It also has the same dust cap on the trans side as the Yaris axle. It seems to be missing the hub side dust cap but I realised once I installed it that it actually does have one that works the exact same as the Yaris axle.

Both axles are compressed in the pic and sitting flush against a wall. The Tercel axle (built by Cardone) also have the 3 grooves in the inner joint case to put a pry bar against when removing the axle







There are subtle differences such as the spline not being cut all the way back like in the Yaris axle, but once I had the yaris axle out I test the hub side with the Tercel axle and voila it worked perfectly. I installed it and check if the axle was being pulled out of the trans in the full extension of the suspension and it appeared fine.

Assembled everything back together, filled the trans with the fluid and went for a test drive. Aaaaaand silence, no more clunk, thud or loud noises. Only a slight rumble of slipping clutch plates on turns with mild throttle and of course wheel chirp on turn with more throttle as the axles lock.

The only "weird" noise I hear now is when I accelerate hard on 1st or 2nd even when the wheel is pointed straight I hear what sounds like a muffled grind from the left side of the engine bay. It does not sounds loud or damaging and it is subtle. I think it has something to do with the diff forcing the clutch plates together. Either way a clutch type lsd is definitely DDable and not nearly as noisy as I thought. Keep in mind Tom also broke it in properly with a half hour of nausea inducing figure 8's.

Cranky did mention to me that he hears a bang on hard acceleration which could be axle bind but may also be the trans hitting the subframe like mine was. It is possible that others may experience the axle bind here and there and not realise it for what it could be.

TL;DR
Bottom line a 1998 Toyota Tercel (non abs) drivers side axle will remove about 0.5-0.9" of length and fix any axle bind you have on the drivers side if you do happen to have it. It is good to know that there is an easy solution to a potential problem that those who do the swap may face. No need for custom axles or having to piece together parts from different axles, just a simple off the shelf axle will work.

Now I can do more WOT pulls without having to worry....poor tires.
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 09:18 PM   #67
atomic_hoji
 
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Kincardine, ON, Canada
Posts: 210
Good bit on information, thanks man.

Glad you go your problem solved for good (knock on wood).

-- Adam
atomic_hoji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2017, 01:11 PM   #68
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
Short update:

Axle bind fixed and most of the noise is gone, however under very hard red line shifting on highway I still have the differential ear of the trans hitting the sub frame.

I will be installing the poly filled xd trans mount back which will fix the trans mount from being in a crazy angle like the current yaris on is. I'm hoping this will potentially move the trans away from the subframe.

Other possibility is that my passenger side mount is toast and worn out from me moving the engine up and down to remove the trans. However no fluid is leaking from it.

I'm getting much more engine movement from the greater torque but it shouldn't be that bad with 2 of the 3 mount poly filled.

Other option is to find a machine shop to machine a solid doggone mount which would lead to more nvh but much less movement

I'll post back how the xd trans mount works
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2017, 12:40 PM   #69
deng
Radical Dreamer
 
deng's Avatar
 
Drives: off of T9
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: MI
Posts: 137
Nice pick up on the transmission, so jelly!
__________________
If you lack driver skill, add horsepower.
deng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2017, 09:08 PM   #70
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
Quote:
Originally Posted by deng View Post
Nice pick up on the transmission, so jelly!
It's a pretty awesome mod on this car!

Update on my noise issue. The last bit of noise I had was under hard accel in 1st or 2nd gear it was a muffled vibration from the left side of the engine bay. I installed my xd poly filled trans mount and got rid of the yaris one.

The xd one was much easier to install as the mount properly lines up so the through bolt is easy to slide in. With the yaris mount its on an angle and I had to use a prybar to force the engine over and after fighting it eventually get the through bolt in.

I test drove the car and that vibration is completely gone. It must have been the through bolt hitting the outer wheel of the mount causing a muffled vibration.

I haven't driven it hard enough to find out if the trans still hits the subframe but over all it is much quieter and now only makes noise under low speed sharp turns.

Once the trans fluid heats up I'm surprised at how quiet it becomes virtually silent with no clutch chatter. Easily dd'able.

Long story short go with the xd mounts of you do the swap. Of you experience axle bind than also get a Tercel axle for the drivers side.
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 03:10 PM   #71
ern-diz
 
ern-diz's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 Liftback
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: CA all day
Posts: 3,212
Awesome R&D and write-up, as usual. Sub'd for a future where I do this swap. Might come in very handy.
__________________
On Instagram

On Wheelwell

#TeamWheelwell #ForTheBuild
ern-diz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2017, 04:00 PM   #72
tmontague
 
tmontague's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 2zr swapped Vios M/T
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Hamilton Ont.
Posts: 2,304
Thanks. The xd axles is shorter than the Yaris axle likely due to the wider 2zr. It has different spline counts though.

I just did a wot red line 1st and second gear pull and heard a mild to moderate clunk of the trans hitting the subframe. It wasn't violent and not really a concern but I will be looking into getting a solid doggone mount machines maybe at the end of next season.
__________________
I like to drive a slow car fast...
tmontague is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need 07 Sedan Tail Light wiring info ASAP atebit General Yaris / Vitz Discussion 3 09-07-2013 06:48 PM
NEWS: TOYOTA REVEALS ALL-NEW YARIS SEDAN AT 2006 LOS ANGELES AUTO SHOW VitzBoy General Yaris / Vitz Discussion 5 09-05-2010 08:53 PM
2007 Yaris Pricing Info ! YarisBueller New YARIS Purchase Forum 104 06-24-2009 04:54 PM
Swap sedan tach into liftback GrassrootsMS DIY / Maintenance / Service 17 09-26-2007 09:45 AM
thinking about buying the sedan. is it worth the extra money for the s(optB) version? friedbbq General Yaris / Vitz Discussion 14 05-20-2006 12:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 AM.




YarisWorld
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.