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Old 01-07-2018, 03:36 PM   #19
atomic_hoji
 
Drives: 2018 Yaris SE 5MT
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On a side note, with the holidays done, I needed wheels to get back to work last week.

Upside: I get to play with my FJ Cruiser again for one more winter.

Downside: I had to dig her out of over a foot of snow and change those mud terrain tires out for winter tires in -24 C weather. They dug through the snowbank nicely to get unburied, but are awful on packed snow / plowed roads.

-- Adam
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:16 PM   #20
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Great to see the progress, are you all set for the wiring or are there still unknowns about that?

Id love to source a corolla ecu and slowly build up a proper harness so I could just do a plug and play with an fae engine and take advantage of the valve lift.

I can't have my car down for more than a day or two sonc sits my dd. If you're able to document the electrical and it works with everything else in the Yaris then this opens many doors for other YW members down the road for a somewhat straight forward swap
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Old 01-09-2018, 10:31 PM   #21
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Hey, thanks for the support man.

Ya, I'm very lucky that I've been able to keep my truck in the meantime. I know for most people if it's a DD they need a weekend project, not multiple weeks of fuddling about.

I'm pretty confident about all of the wiring I need to take care of, but won't call it 100% until I get it completed (and proven to work!). I found while disconnecting the Yaris wiring that I had a mis-understanding of a couple of things - at least 1 thing will make life easier (woo!), the others not so much easier or harder, just a difference between what I expected and what's there. As I get the wiring steps done I'll get more pictures in and do a final write-up for others to follow once I've proven it works.

Without looking at the xD wiring, I would imagine with having the xD 2ZR-FE harness you could probably put that on a 2ZR-FAE and run the few wires for the VALVMATIC control and power; would have to confirm ECM mapping and finding wire terminals to match the ECM connector - might be tough if they aren't the same as other types used on the wire harness. Of course, I say that, but have still yet to open the connector to do the wire swap to give me my cooling fan ECU output.. lol

-- Adam
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:30 AM   #22
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Quick update: the cake is a lie; for now.

Short version: Yaris is in the same sad state sitting on jackstands as it was a few weeks ago, and is lowest on priority list for now until life is back in order.

The long, personal blogosphere version is that after such a good holiday, tides turned and it's been a bit of a rough go the past few weeks. Got news my Mum has cancer, she's now started chemo. Week later I got sick with what I thought was a dose of influenza; turned into pneumonia - been face down the past 2 weeks. Work is accommodating missed test, but exams are a different group, so bit anxious about being behind the 8 ball by 2 weeks..

Did find there's a semi-local U-Pull yard - wife drove past en route to a market with a friend - and from their website, they have a 2nd gen. Yaris in the yard. Once I'm up and about I'm going to go see what I can pull more harness and wiring; give me some spare bits and pre-crimped wires to play with.

-- Adam
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Old 02-08-2018, 07:45 AM   #23
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Hi Adam, hope everything is going to get better for you and your mom

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Old 02-08-2018, 07:50 AM   #24
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It's a pleasure reading your posts and seeing how your car is progressing but take your time for taking care of yourself and your family. We will be here when you come back :)

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Old 02-10-2018, 07:00 PM   #25
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Appreciate the kind words, thank you!

We're getting there.. slowly but surely. lol Looking forward to early March when the chaos is (should be) done and we're closer to status quo.

-- Adam
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Old 03-02-2018, 05:00 PM   #26
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Appreciate it, thanks
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:30 PM   #27
atomic_hoji
 
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Ok, try #2 to update.. last Tuesday I had a day off before going back to my shift crew, so I thought I'd get an update posted. Then low and behold while I was logged into YW reviewing new posts I got a call from the hospital saying my Mum was in ICU and that if we can get up to the hospital we should do so asap; turned into a helluva week.. Mum's in stable condition, and the calm has finally returned again; for now anyway.

I'm not dead (not for lack of trying apparently.. lol) or run away from YW; the swap is not abandoned 'nor forgotten; and I haven't cut the 2ZR-FAE loose and put the 1NZ-FE back in. I also haven't copied the photos over from my phone, lol, so I'll have to update the post when I'm off next, but here's the skinny..

Progress:
  • 2ZR-FAE fits in a 3rd gen. Yaris using Scion xD RH engine mount and Yaris dogbone and LH transmission mounts; it's tight.. props to those who personhandled (zing Mr. Prime Minister, lol) the engine & transmission combo in solo!
  • Driveshafts are installed so car is finally sitting on the ground again - I've gotten used to it on jack stands, it's so low now! Caused myself extra work when I spun the axle nut off as I mangled the threads. Bought a rethread die and cleaned it up, worked a treat.
  • O2 wire repair done; harness plug conversion nearly swapped - had to borrow a soldering iron and stuff to solder. I found the prefab solder and shrink conectors were a mess to deal with - heat shrink got a pinhole when solder melted and dripped. Doing the rest of the wires the old fashioned way with solder and heat shrink tube.
  • Pulled a 2nd gen. Yaris harness to get donor wires from so I can do a clean install (see below), but ...

Issues I have discovered:
  • In post #21 above I mentioned I misunderstood something. Ya, it's an oversight that I'm really embarassed about. I was so careful about all the wiring, then I neglected to pay attention to ECU pin sizes, so my idea of moving a FANH or FANL wire to RFC for an elegant solution was a no go. Unfortunately Toyota doesn't leave any unused wires for the AT on the MT harness, so no spare tiny pin wire to use either. Then I pulled a 2007 harness at a U-Pull and found the ECU difference between generations; figures, can't be bothered to change the rest of the car, but they go an update the connectors!
  • 2nd gen. Yaris ECU connectors are very different.. it uses 2 sizes of pins: large and small. 3rd gen. Yaris ECU and Scion iM ECU also use 2 sizes of pins: small and tiny. Two major things come out of this:
    1. I have no wire to steal to run my RFC (cooling fan) wire, and
    2. Based on this 2007 harness and the pictures of up to 2011 ECUs I found in a search (searching wire harness numbers found a ton of varying numbers over 2006 to 2011, so not as useful as I'd hoped..) the 2ZR-FAE swap as I'm doing it with the Scion iM ECU will not work on 2nd gen. Yaris'. Or rather, will not plug in as simply - you would need to find a modern 60-pin connector from a donor harness and chop it, then chop your ECU connector, remap, and solder all the active wires. I'd need a 2nd gen. set of EWDs to have a better idea. Here's hoping I'm wrong..
  • Yaris heater hoses are useable, but are a miserable mess; need to order Scion xD hoses.
  • Need custom hose for the vacuum piping between vacuum switch and hard pipe/tube on the firewall.
  • 2ZR-FAE uses an external, auxiliary vacuum pump! Crazy. Apparently an artifact of VALVEMATIC is that it can't use intake manifold for brake booster, so it has a vacuum pump on the rear side driven by the exhaust camshaft. Needs a short, custom tube between it and the brake booster.

So that's where it's at. Some reassembly in progress, which once the hoses and such are connected I'll fire the rad. support, rad., etc.. on and fill with fluids.

Looking towards an external, aftermarket cooling fan control setup. They exist and are pretty straight forward from what I've found in a quick search. Expect that the missing RFC line won't cause a problem since it's a variable resistance output only, but we'll see if it causes a CEL.

-- Adam

edit: added the evidence it's actually installed!
yaris_2zr_installed.jpg
yaris_2zr_tight.jpg

and the difference between 2007 (left, bottom) and 2018 (right, top) ECU (body side) connectors:
yaris_ecu_connectors.jpg

Last edited by atomic_hoji; 04-02-2018 at 06:15 PM. Reason: added pics!
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Old 03-28-2018, 04:57 AM   #28
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I've been watching your thread pretty closely eagerly awaiting updates. Sorry to hear about your personal situation. Hope things work out ok!

It sounds like a source for ECU pins/pigtails is your biggest problem at this point? Any chance of getting to a pick a part style wrecker to grab a few wires. Co-incidentally, I was at a wrecker last weekend here in Aus and they had an equivalent of your Scion IM in the yard :S

I've previously used this guy to source connectors and terminals in the past. Can highly recommend! - https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/E...onnectors.html

FYI - you may also need to invest in a decent crimper if you don't already have one!

Personally, I think using the factory Toyota fan controller would be the cleanest solution. In saying that, I'd also agree with you re the CEL - That fan controller isn't connected to the CAN bus, and I wouldn't think the ECU would expect any feedback on FAN operation. Do you know what type of signal the RFC pin outputs? I thought it might be square wave, but perhaps it's a varying voltage?

On a separate point, I note you only used that RH engine mount and retained the other Yaris mounts. I was under the impression that this would result in miss-alignment of the motor (if only by a smidge). Have you found this to be the case? I'm currently hunting for the appropriate scion xd brackets, but they are proving very difficult to obtain from US based wreckers :(.

Last edited by stidnam; 03-28-2018 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:36 PM   #29
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hope you mom is doing better, sorry to hear about the setbacks but that's how it sometimes goes with projects cars. In this case you are also taking on a new project seeing as a 2018 has never been swapped with a 2zr and an FAE has also never been swapped.

After reading about your challenges I can see why the FE is typically the go to, seems to be a much easier plug and play since that is what the Scion xD uses
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Old 03-29-2018, 09:36 PM   #30
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I've been so impressed by this thread I haven't even known how or what to contribute...

Im sorry to hear about you mom, keep your head up buddy.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:08 PM   #31
atomic_hoji
 
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I really appreciate the kind words, thanks guys! Was a bit of a rough time a couple weeks ago, but things are heading in the positive direction so far.

Was on my first set of night shifts in several months over the weekend, so no further progress, but off work the next couple days so I'm aiming to wrap up the last of the wiring (less the fan control) and re-assemble, fill fluids, etc.. that I can. Got my phone hooked up and downloaded the pictures to the computers, so I added the pics of the 2ZR in the engine bay and the clearance on each side as well. I have a bunch of odd and sod pictures of wiring bits, etc.. - trying to get pictures of things I've changed. Lots to go back through and update through the thread to ensure it's clear; sounds like a 'once-its-running' task..

Quote:
Originally Posted by stidnam View Post
...
It sounds like a source for ECU pins/pigtails is your biggest problem at this point? Any chance of getting to a pick a part style wrecker to grab a few wires. Co-incidentally, I was at a wrecker last weekend here in Aus and they had an equivalent of your Scion IM in the yard :S

I've previously used this guy to source connectors and terminals in the past. Can highly recommend! - https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/E...onnectors.html

Personally, I think using the factory Toyota fan controller would be the cleanest solution. In saying that, I'd also agree with you re the CEL - That fan controller isn't connected to the CAN bus, and I wouldn't think the ECU would expect any feedback on FAN operation. Do you know what type of signal the RFC pin outputs? I thought it might be square wave, but perhaps it's a varying voltage?

On a separate point, I note you only used that RH engine mount and retained the other Yaris mounts. I was under the impression that this would result in miss-alignment of the motor (if only by a smidge). Have you found this to be the case? I'm currently hunting for the appropriate scion xd brackets, but they are proving very difficult to obtain from US based wreckers :(.
With respect to the ECU pins, yes and no. Yes, because the RFC line for 2ZR fan control isn't going to work out the way I had imagined; if I'd looked closer in the first place I'd have maybe figured that out, but live and learn, lol. I say no because the ECU isn't really a problem in general as (less the fan control) connector-wise it is literally plug-n-play (does require ECU relocation). The conversion the main engine harness to body harness connectors - 18-pin 'BA2' and 2-pin 'BA3' on iM to 26-pin 'CA3' on Yaris - has been a bit of a pain; although I have the 'knack' for de-pinning now, so that part has become easy enough, lol. I have been fussing about with how to make that conversion as neat as possible. Of course, the real test will be plugging it in and nothing popping (best case a fuse..) and/or catching fire.. I've bookmarked the Eastern Beaver site, thanks! I used Rakuten Market (hi-1000) for the terminals I ordered, but always good to have many sources. Not many wreckers up in my area (pick-n-pull or not) have new enough Toyotas, but I'll keep an eye and plan the conversion to the factory fan control as an upgrade in future.

In searching the manual in the troubleshooting section I found a good description of the RFC output - it is a square wave output as you say and control is done by varying duty cycle based on engine coolant temperature; i.e. more demand, increase duration of 'on' portion of each pulse. But ya, since there's no feedback and it's not a CAN based control, I doubt it'll cause a CEL; worst case I imagine would be a troubleshooting code for 'fan not connected' or some such thing.

I did use only the Scion xD RH engine mount and it seems to sit in there fairly naturally. Using a chainfall (and not removing the sub-frame because I'm a dum-dum) it was a grunt to get it into the mounts. Once I had it in the RH engine mount, I had to use a prybar and force the whole assembly toward the RH side as the bolt for the LH transmission mount was about a 1/2" too far toward the LH side; this does mean that the LH transmission mount bushing is constantly loaded outward. Once it's driveable I will see if it has clunks and thunks, lol. Some of the guys that have done the 2ZR swap in the 2nd gens might be able to comment if they ran into the same thing (I don't recall reading that was the case, but those memory marbles were pushed out by exam prep. lol). I am a bit concerned about long-term impact on that bushing, but we'll see. I actually just ended-up ordering a new RH engine mount from an online Scion parts dealer. Maybe eBay? I've found some large wrecker companies are using eBay listings; it's how I picked up the correct A/C compressor actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmontague View Post
...
After reading about your challenges I can see why the FE is typically the go to, seems to be a much easier plug and play since that is what the Scion xD uses
lol, agreed! Although, that said, the FE is more straight-forward now because the odd and sod tidbits have been documented and worked through; tricks discovered by you guys who have finished the swap successfully. I imagine when Tom was working through the FE swap the first time he ran into unknowns. Once this is running and I look back and summarize what was really needed to make it work, maybe it won't seem like such a pain.

-- Adam
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:13 PM   #32
atomic_hoji
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmstrongRacing View Post
I've been so impressed by this thread I haven't even known how or what to contribute...

Im sorry to hear about you mom, keep your head up buddy.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.
Appreciate that, thanks Tom!

All the work done by yourself and the others on YW documenting the original swap has been a huge amount of groundwork laid for doing this swap. I'm glad I can build on it, work my way through and document the FAE for the next person.

I'll keep the assistance offer in mind, thanks - I suspect most likely the call for help will be if I go to fire it all up and the immobilizer handshake doesn't work, lol.

-- Adam
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:38 PM   #33
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The issue you mentioned with the LH mount being forced into alignment is exactly how I’ve been running my car since the swap. I chose that setup because it holds the drive-train tighter, and for racing purposes that seemed better. The mount is still in good condition with no tears (yet), but I’m unsure it it contributes to vibrations
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:14 PM   #34
atomic_hoji
 
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Haven't updated in a while - only jumped on YW at all for quick posts - partly due to personal life and work being busy. Generally things are going much better, Mum's home now with appointments for follow-up and physiotherapy, and I ended up back on a day job (vs shift work). Again, appreciate the support from you folks on YW, thanks!

Delayed thanks to Tom for the response on the engine / transmission mounts - good to know I'm seeing the same thing and you haven't (so far!) had any issues with it, even with the stress of racing being put on the car.

-- Adam
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Old 04-29-2018, 05:56 PM   #35
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So by far the biggest hold up to wrenching has been waiting for parts. You wouldn't think getting a couple of hoses would be so damn hard! I live a nice, rural area but unfortunately we don't have a lot of the big supply places - even the chains have to order most of what I want in.. Oddly the dealership had the part I wanted faster! lol

I solved an issue with the coolant line (upper rad.) and electrical (main ECU bundle) both wanting to occupy the same, small space between the Valvematic control box and the battery. Using the Scion xD filler neck assembly (p/n: ) and upper rad. hose will route the line under the air intake instead of over like in the Yaris. Did also order and use the Scion xD heater hoses - they route much better than the Yaris hoses do. Added the Mishimoto inline temperature probe adapter unit into the upper rad. hose so I can power the external fan controller as well.

So after finding enough bravery, I connected all the electrics (nothing exploded - woo!) and went through the Main ECM <-> Immobilizer ECU registration process, and ..

it's

ALIVE

...

almost.

So, this is where I'd appreciate any troubleshooting help you guys may be able to think of.. The summary of what's happened with it so far:

After registering the communication ID I went from ON to Start and it fired - actually, popped loudly, which startled the daylights out of me and I let off Start; found after that I had left the masking tape on the exhaust manifold.. lol Went from ON to Start again and it fired, ran for about 15s (counting mississippis) and stalled. I figured the immobilizer registered successfully as the manual says "ensure engine starts and runs for more than 3 seconds"; it did. So, I gathered it ran on fuel left in the fuel rail, but the fuel line just needed to refill. I disconnected the battery again (don't trust it yet) and went inside for the afternoon - watched Formula Drift Orlando Top 16 with the family..

Today, went out still with the assumption the immobilizer was solved and I needed to check I was getting fuel. Installed the exhaust - the short run stank out the garage and is loud as hell. Tried to fire it up to test it out and got combustion and a few second run, then fluttered, then stalled. Tried again, feathering the throttle, still assuming I needed to push fuel, ran for a few and then stalled even with the throttle slightly in. Did some checks, e.g. realized I forgot the O2 plug so plugged it back in, and found there's a buzzing/whine on the throttle body housing - wedged a board in the throttle pedal and confirmed the throttle body did open. Went OFF, then ON with OBD2 scanner hooked up and found no codes.. then Start to try again, and got the same thing - fires and flumps. Still trying to start with combustion, but something cuts it out right away - that part feels like immobilizer.

I have an OBD2 scanner, but realized (after trying a couple of times of course), that it's a pretty simple device that may not be reading the DTC code for the immobilizer, or any other Toyota specific DTCs. No generic codes are showing, but then the engine isn't running long, so may not have time to generate a code either.

One of the first times I tried today, after the 15s 'success' yesterday, I feel like I got several seconds, but wasn't counting.. These two things make me think the immobilizer isn't the issue, but with the various tries I have a (conservatively, since I didn't always cycle back to OFF and then ON) count of 10 tries. Manual says absolutely do not cycle more than 20 times or it will lock the immobilizer transponder ECU out and it will require replacement.

I'd like to put an immobilizer bypass in place and see if it fires and runs or behaves the same. If the bypass is a guarantee to work then it will rule out the immobilizer as an issue and I can focus on drive-by-wire, fuel (?), and start the dreaded task of chasing electrical gremlins - since I'm positive my soldering isn't perfect; though I thought I did a decent job, if I do say so myself. Alternatively, a bypass could prove the immobilizer was the issue and it'll start and run; in which case I'll put the hood on and give it a test drive.. lol.

As always, appreciate the support from everyone on YW! So close..

-- Adam

p.s. - do have more pictures, and have a list that feels like a mile long of things to run through so that I have everything captured. May try my hand at a video walking through the changes.. dunno if I have the mad camera skills like Tom.
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Old 04-29-2018, 07:57 PM   #36
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Did you disconnect the immobilizer wires from the ecu?

My current set up had me running a non immobilizer ecu but i still had to disconnect 3 immo wires going into the ecu so it doesn't think that it should have an immo.

If your ecu has an immo I'm not too sure what the process would be other then using Toyota techstream software are having the ecu and immo ecu (located at the ignition) properly communicate to eachother
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