AEM FIC Tuning - Toyota Yaris Forums

Scubaru Steve · 01-19-2011, 10:41 PM

anyone know what the voltage - afr table is for the stock echo/yaris o2 sensor?
also how to switch over the controller to sent out a signal or the stock computer to read so i can tune open loop?

Focus_Sh1ft · 01-20-2011, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubaru Steve

anyone know what the voltage - afr table is for the stock echo/yaris o2 sensor?
also how to switch over the controller to sent out a signal or the stock computer to read so i can tune open loop?

1). I don't think anyone has even set up the O2 signal properly on the 1NZ. I've tried all the methods AEM recommends and had no luck.

2). If you're asking how the FIC can be set up to only send signals during open loop that's easy. You would just edit the fuel map only where the car enters open loop.

If you're asking how to send a signal to the ECU to switch to open loop then that is impossible. Well, not impossible but no one has figured out a way to do so.

Open loop tuning... Do it

Your welcome to try and solve some of the issues I mentioned though. Personally, I went with what is known to work rather than being a perfectionist.

Scubaru Steve · 02-20-2011, 12:03 PM

alright, so im sure this is more difficult with an automatic. but does anyone know where closed loop ends and open loop takes over? i also think that if i take a small amount of voltage away from the 02 sensor during boost in closed loop i may be able to get low 13's out of it, (at least away from the 14-15) if there are any fic gurus please feel free to chime in.

Bluevitz-rs · 02-20-2011, 11:40 PM

Just so everyone is on the same page, the Echo ECU and Yaris ECU are COMPLETELY different in their logic. The Yaris is more hard core.

You could try clamping the intake air temp sensor at -40°. I don't know if it'll force closed loop but you should be able to switch it on the fly without setting a code as the ECU would simply thing the air suddenly got really cold.

Have you had a look on the Scion forums yet? They might be able to shed more light on open/closed loop as they're more closely related.

Focus_Sh1ft · 02-21-2011, 01:58 PM

I don't know how they differ in operation, but open/closed loop should still behave the same way.

You definitely have the right idea by subtracting voltage from the O2 to change the desired AFR in closed loop.

Scubaru Steve · 02-21-2011, 06:49 PM

well i went out there to tune it today, just got back, i added as much as 3.1% more fuel at 6000rpm, it sits nice at 11.1 afr. i have it set to pull 3* timing.
this turbo auto is so awesome, brake stand make the rear of the car sit 2 inches lower and then the brakes can hold 5psi off the line..

Not sure where closed loop ends so i'm using 3800 rpm to introduce fuel. no bogging issues.
im impressed with this little car!

Yoda · 02-22-2011, 10:08 AM

Just be careful when below 3800rpm. Partial throttle can still make boom.

Scubaru Steve · 02-22-2011, 12:57 PM

i know that, its an auto so if you want any power out of it, the car downshifts and all goes well.

today i'm doing some data logging and going to see how much voltage i need to take away from the 02 voltage. im going to make it tickle 13-14 afr rather then the 14-15 i see. it will make fuel mileage worse but will keep everything cooler and hopefully last longer. you can only adjust at certain voltage/rpm, so this may take a while to figure out, ill probably have to adjust everwhere but idle and under 3800rpm, unless i can find out where open loop starts and i can fine tune.

not sure what psia you guys are running but im only hitting 18.
18-14.7 = 3.3psi , it is showing 5 psi gauge pressure.
i think i may try a good manual boost controler to up it to 20 psia 7psi at my altitude.

what you guys think?

Focus_Sh1ft · 02-22-2011, 02:02 PM

In my opinion, there's no benefit to be had by having a 13-14 AFR out of boost. I'm constantly running 15-15.5 out of boost, sometimes even slightly leaner, and haven't had any issues.

A boost controller would be a good idea as well. However, if you're not hitting max boost then it's likely you have a boost leak somewhere. I currently have the same problem. A boost controller would be a good idea, but if you're getting manual make sure you get the ball and spring type.

Scubaru Steve · 02-22-2011, 02:23 PM

there is no boost leak, waste gate is set to 5psi, i'm running 5psi.
the only difference is that 5psi here at 3800ft is only 3.3psi at sea level.

as for adjusting the afr's, i hit 5psi at 2500rpm in closed loop. you cannot change only for boost, only voltage at rpm. so that is the only way to change the afr's.

cali yaris · 02-22-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

I'm constantly running 15-15.5 out of boost, sometimes even slightly leaner, and haven't had any issues.

Right. Yet. You're definitely shortening the life of the motor.

If that weren't so, Toyota would run the motor at that AFR too, and so would everyone else.

Focus_Sh1ft · 02-22-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

i found a function in the fic to switch the o2 map to be switchable with boost pressure. now just need to test drive to see how well it works!
it worked sitting in the parking lot, i was able to drop it down to 12.2 at idle.

I'm jealous lol. That's exactly what I wanted to do but could never get the O2 skew to work correctly.

Quote:

Right. Yet. You're definitely shortening the life of the motor.

If that weren't so, Toyota would run the motor at that AFR too, and so would everyone else.

Definitely in agreement here, and was going to richen the entire map when the weather warmed up.

I always thought low 15 was safe because in closed loop the mixture would generally run on the leaner side of stoich, and go as lean as 15.4ish frequently. I probably should just be playing it safe rather than trying to squeeze out as much fuel economy as possible...

Bluevitz-rs · 02-23-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft

I'm jealous lol. That's exactly what I wanted to do but could never get the O2 skew to work correctly.

Definitely in agreement here, and was going to richen the entire map when the weather warmed up.

I always thought low 15 was safe because in closed loop the mixture would generally run on the leaner side of stoich, and go as lean as 15.4ish frequently. I probably should just be playing it safe rather than trying to squeeze out as much fuel economy as possible...

This is what I was saying about the difference between the Yaris ECU and the Echo ECU. The Echo's is way more forgiving if it doesn't see normal values. The Yaris will freak out and correct them.

Focus_Sh1ft · 02-23-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs

This is what I was saying about the difference between the Yaris ECU and the Echo ECU. The Echo's is way more forgiving if it doesn't see normal values. The Yaris will freak out and correct them.

I'm just curious as to why you think this? Theoretically, if you're manipulating the AFR sensor's voltage, it can't really correct itself since it's the main method of fueling feedback (and therefore will think that everything is okay).

However, I definitely think the ECU might see continuous low voltage at the AFR sensor and throw a code. More importantly though, it probably would throw the engine into open loop. No one has really tested this method of tuning on the Yaris yet, so I'm just speculating.

Could this be where the Yaris and Echo ECUs differ?

Bluevitz-rs · 02-23-2011, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Right. Yet. You're definitely shortening the life of the motor.

If that weren't so, Toyota would run the motor at that AFR too, and so would everyone else.

Toyota does. Stock the cars (Toyota's in general) can run as high as 17:1 AFR while at cruise.

Scubaru Steve · 02-23-2011, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs

Toyota does. Stock the cars (Toyota's in general) can run as high as 17:1 AFR while at cruise.

i dont know where you got you information... but 14.5-15.2 seems to be the norm at cruise. and thats the closed loop setting unless you start tuning that.

at 17 there is a severe loss of power. when we had the bogging issue thats where it was, then the ecu would dump fuel and suddenly it had a ton of power.

thebarber · 02-22-2011, 03:41 PM

i have a couple of friends with s/c'd 2zz's, here is what was said via msn...

Quote:

adam barber says:
do you know how evil and pmag tuned w/ piggyback?

is it all open loop?

i seem to recall evil had some kind of trick to fool the maf or ecu or something...

drunkennewfiemidget says:

Yea..

The ECU goes into open loop when you go WOT.

So he has the TPS signal run into a relay.

And then the emanage outputs a faked TPS signal.

When it detects boost, the relay fires (digital output), switching the tps signal from the actual tps to the faked tps value from the emanage.

Putting the car into open loop.

The other option is to tap into narrowband and fake the o2 reading to have the factory ecu richen the mixture.

Scubaru Steve · 02-22-2011, 03:55 PM

the tps sounds like it works.
i found a function in the fic to switch the o2 map to be switchable with boost pressure. now just need to test drive to see how well it works!
it worked sitting in the parking lot, i was able to drop it down to 12.2 at idle.
so it is tunable, now just trial and error to see how well it works.

01-19-2011, 10:41 PM	#1
Scubaru Steve Awesome! Drives: 12 Yaris/07 yaris Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: calgary Posts: 323	AEM FIC Tuning anyone know what the voltage - afr table is for the stock echo/yaris o2 sensor? also how to switch over the controller to sent out a signal or the stock computer to read so i can tune open loop?

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02-20-2011, 12:03 PM	#3
Scubaru Steve Awesome! Drives: 12 Yaris/07 yaris Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: calgary Posts: 323	alright, so im sure this is more difficult with an automatic. but does anyone know where closed loop ends and open loop takes over? i also think that if i take a small amount of voltage away from the 02 sensor during boost in closed loop i may be able to get low 13's out of it, (at least away from the 14-15) if there are any fic gurus please feel free to chime in.

02-20-2011, 11:40 PM	#4
Bluevitz-rs 1NZ-6spd View User's Garage Drives: '05 6-Spd Vitz RS Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,967	Just so everyone is on the same page, the Echo ECU and Yaris ECU are COMPLETELY different in their logic. The Yaris is more hard core. You could try clamping the intake air temp sensor at -40°. I don't know if it'll force closed loop but you should be able to switch it on the fly without setting a code as the ECU would simply thing the air suddenly got really cold. Have you had a look on the Scion forums yet? They might be able to shed more light on open/closed loop as they're more closely related.

02-21-2011, 01:58 PM	#5
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	I don't know how they differ in operation, but open/closed loop should still behave the same way. You definitely have the right idea by subtracting voltage from the O2 to change the desired AFR in closed loop.

02-21-2011, 06:49 PM	#6
Scubaru Steve Awesome! Drives: 12 Yaris/07 yaris Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: calgary Posts: 323	well i went out there to tune it today, just got back, i added as much as 3.1% more fuel at 6000rpm, it sits nice at 11.1 afr. i have it set to pull 3* timing. this turbo auto is so awesome, brake stand make the rear of the car sit 2 inches lower and then the brakes can hold 5psi off the line.. Not sure where closed loop ends so i'm using 3800 rpm to introduce fuel. no bogging issues. im impressed with this little car!

02-22-2011, 10:08 AM	#7
Yoda Drives: 2008 Black Sedan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: FL Posts: 966	Just be careful when below 3800rpm. Partial throttle can still make boom.

02-22-2011, 12:57 PM	#8
Scubaru Steve Awesome! Drives: 12 Yaris/07 yaris Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: calgary Posts: 323	i know that, its an auto so if you want any power out of it, the car downshifts and all goes well. today i'm doing some data logging and going to see how much voltage i need to take away from the 02 voltage. im going to make it tickle 13-14 afr rather then the 14-15 i see. it will make fuel mileage worse but will keep everything cooler and hopefully last longer. you can only adjust at certain voltage/rpm, so this may take a while to figure out, ill probably have to adjust everwhere but idle and under 3800rpm, unless i can find out where open loop starts and i can fine tune. not sure what psia you guys are running but im only hitting 18. 18-14.7 = 3.3psi , it is showing 5 psi gauge pressure. i think i may try a good manual boost controler to up it to 20 psia 7psi at my altitude. what you guys think?

02-22-2011, 02:02 PM	#9
Focus_Sh1ft Drives: 08 Yaris Turbo; 06 tC Turbo Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 875	In my opinion, there's no benefit to be had by having a 13-14 AFR out of boost. I'm constantly running 15-15.5 out of boost, sometimes even slightly leaner, and haven't had any issues. A boost controller would be a good idea as well. However, if you're not hitting max boost then it's likely you have a boost leak somewhere. I currently have the same problem. A boost controller would be a good idea, but if you're getting manual make sure you get the ball and spring type.

02-22-2011, 02:23 PM	#10
Scubaru Steve Awesome! Drives: 12 Yaris/07 yaris Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: calgary Posts: 323	there is no boost leak, waste gate is set to 5psi, i'm running 5psi. the only difference is that 5psi here at 3800ft is only 3.3psi at sea level. as for adjusting the afr's, i hit 5psi at 2500rpm in closed loop. you cannot change only for boost, only voltage at rpm. so that is the only way to change the afr's.

02-22-2011, 03:55 PM	#18
Scubaru Steve Awesome! Drives: 12 Yaris/07 yaris Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: calgary Posts: 323	the tps sounds like it works. i found a function in the fic to switch the o2 map to be switchable with boost pressure. now just need to test drive to see how well it works! it worked sitting in the parking lot, i was able to drop it down to 12.2 at idle. so it is tunable, now just trial and error to see how well it works.