2 amps on stock atl? - Toyota Yaris Forums

p123456789 · 10-10-2010, 09:55 PM

I have some kenwood components with a small 2 channel amp (20 amp fuse).
I would like to add a sub because the components just aren't cutting it in the low end department, I was wondering if 2 amps would kill the stock alternator my component amp is 150 watts rms and I'd like to add a 400 watt rms subwoofer amp and run a obcon godzilla box that my neighbor gave to me. my car has no power options so hopefully another amp wont kill it.

Palmer812 · 10-10-2010, 10:03 PM

You will be fine. That is not alot of power.

fnkngrv · 10-10-2010, 10:34 PM

other information that you will need to verify is what your voltage is that is being provided from your HU to those amps. With more efficient signals comes cleaner power; cleaner power means less work for your amps and I would think less work by your alternator. I am sure that someone will chime in and correct me however I can tell you from my experience and watching voltmeters, etc I have noticed a difference. Either way, I am running my Bazooka at full gain (200 RMS) and my Alpine PDX four channel amp at 3/4 gain which is pushing I believe about 80 RMS to each of my drivers plus all of the other custom electrical draw without issue so I would wager you will be fine.

sqcomp · 10-11-2010, 01:29 AM

The gain adjustment on the amplifier raise the sensitivity of the amplifier to the incoming signal Voltage. If one has the amp's gains cranked like that, I'd be more than willing to wager that on the top end of your volume that it can get pretty noisy.

"In my opinion (and MANY will disagree), the gains should be set so that the amplifier reaches full power just as the head unit reaches maximum output. This would allow you to use the entire range of the volume control (assuming that the head unit doesn't clip at full volume) and still get full power out of the amplifier. If you're an audiophile who likes listening to a flat response AND you have a speaker system that produces a flat response AND are listening to music that's properly recorded AND you've purchased the right amplifier, setting the gains like this will prevent clipping (again, assuming that the head unit doesn't clip at full volume). If you're into quality over quantity, this is (IMO) the best setup." -BCAE1.com

Aside from that side issue, the amplifiers load on your alternator is minimal DEPENDING on how hard you're railing on the volume. Our OEM alternators aren't particularly beefy. They are decent quality though. If loading your alternator down makes you nervous, consider my situation. I'm running three Audison LRx amplifiers off my alternator. I still have a good 14.3 Volts on startup and hover at 13.8 to 14 Volts driving to and from work. There are times when I have dipped the running Voltage down to 12.9. That was at idle and pulling a 2 Ohm mono load on my LRx 2.9 sub amplifier...something I normally don't do. In that situation I was testing out a pre loaded digital designs enclosure.

Here's something to read:

"If you have an alternator that can produce 120 amps of current (max) and the the total current demand from the electrical accessories (including the battery) is only 20 amps, the alternator will only produce the necessary current (20 amps) to maintain the target voltage (which is determined by the alternator's internal voltage regulator). Remember that the alternator monitors the electrical system's voltage. If the voltage starts to fall below the target voltage (approximately 13.8 volts depending on the alternator's design), the alternator produces more current to keep the voltage up. When the demand for current is low, the full current capacity of the alternator is not used/produced (a 120 amp alternator does not continuously produce 120 amps unless there is a sufficient current draw)." - BCAE1.com

The short answer to your question is...you'll be fine for the most part I'm sure.

p123456789 · 10-11-2010, 07:48 AM

thanks for the help sq comp I think if your car can handle those three huge amps my car should have no problem with my two smaller amps. so what your saying is that I need to set my amp up so I can still use the full volume level? and how do I know which amp to buy according to which head unit I have a pioneer premier and I'm running a mtx rpt 202 I only paid 20 bucks for the amp on ebay and it was local so I couldnt pass it up. I listen to every kind of music out there mostly rock though, can you recommend a good amp for a single 12 inch sub? I think i'm getting a obcon gozilla box because I can get it dirt cheap although it does have some damage on one of the corners that I think I can fix.

TheDriver916 · 10-11-2010, 12:58 PM

i have a kicker zx350.4 for my mids and highs and a alpine mrp 500 both beating at the same time and only on long low bass notes will my lights dim. I was pretty impressed that it handles it no problem.

sqcomp · 10-11-2010, 12:59 PM

Notice that the gain management ditty I have up there notes about quality listening. A lot of people, I'd estimate at least 90%, don't give a hoot about non-clipped signals.

I'm not suggesting that you need to trade in what you have. Rather just to be aware about the different Voltage outputs on source units. If you have a "weaker output", let's say 2 Volts, your amp gains are going to need to be cracked open more to be more sensitive to the lower Voltage that the source supplies.

I'd imagine that since you're on a budget you don't want to spend the money, probably an hours worth of labor, to have a reputable shop level match your source and amps. There area couple of solutions but the involve spending a little more money to buy test speakers and what not. By ear is probably the way you'll go. Just know when you set your gains by ear, by the time you hear distortion, clipping has already been happening for a bit.

As for reccomendations? I'd want to know the power handling of the sub...actually...makes me wonder what you're looking for overall. I have heard a loaded enclosure with an 8" sub that destroys...I mean absolutely DESTROYS most vented 12"s on the market. Let's talk more about what you want.

TD916 - What have you done for upgrades on your charging system? I'm running with 165 Amps of potential draw and at my loudest I don't dim...although, now that I think about it, I'm running HIDs so they wouldn't anyway. They'd just shut off. Regardless, you're obviously having some Voltage draw issues. Have you even stuck a Voltimeter on your system to see what is happening?

TheDriver916 · 10-11-2010, 05:30 PM

i havent put a volt meter on it yet but im guessing im hovering around 12.5, and i dont push my system hard for long periods of time. Im a wuss and im always worrying about burning up the voice coils lol

Palmer812 · 10-11-2010, 07:40 PM

SQ, you are right but most head units on the market nowadays do clip. Your's is an exception. The $1000 Alpine I have has a sorry 2 volt and starts to clip at 24-25 out of 35. I have had an Alpine 7909AE and a Nakamichi CD700 that wouldn't clip at all. My sub amp is close to full gain but my 4 channel is just over half. I have it bridged to 300x2 on my fronts.

p123456789 · 10-11-2010, 08:14 PM

I have 4v pre outs on my pioneer premier hu should I run my amp at 3/4 so? also my neighbor gave me an obcon godzilla single 12'' ported box what sub is a good match for this box I listen to mostly hard rock. what does clipping sound like, does it sorta sound like distortion?

Palmer812 · 10-11-2010, 08:42 PM

Yes clipping is distortion. The easiest way to set the gain on an amplifier with no special tools required is to start with the amplifier all the way down. Then set your headunit to 3/4 volume and then slowly bring up the gain on the amplifier until is starts to clip. As far as what sub you need for that box we need to know more. What size is the box and what size is the port?

sqcomp · 10-11-2010, 09:19 PM

To add more to what Palmer is saying, when you HEAR the clipping, it's bad. Mmmmm'kay? :D

A lot of lower end source units clip at full volume (regrettably). So 3/4 volume isn't a bad idea per se...it just limits the total range of the Voltage. It keeps you safe though. The amps gains having to be at 3/4? Well, there's just something wrong there then. That means that the Voltage from the source isn't what it advertises. 4 true Volts should be plenty. Actually that's what I run my source at "max", a little over 4 Volts. I scoped mine though and set it accordingly.

Palmer...7909 love over here! That was my first tuner. The 25th anniversary '09. It is a wonderful deck. I had fun with the Naks as well working for my first audio shop. Try to scope your amps with those gain settings at the speaker outs on the amps. Something tells me you'll be suprised how much clipping you see.

Driver...if you're hovering around 12.5 Volts, that's something serious. That means your battery is holding your system up. Take a startup read off the alternator if at all possible. Hell, I wouldn't worry about the voice coils! I'd think long and hard about the charging system. You can still drive without subs, you can't do squat without an alternator. Believe me, it happened to me once many years ago. It won't happen again.

Palmer812 · 10-11-2010, 09:49 PM

My 7909 was a 30th. anniversary that I got dirt cheap. I regret ever selling it. When I sold it I put in a then top of the line Alpine deck that was supposed to be 4 volt. That was bs. I had to regain both of my amps and I still couldn't get it as loud as it was with the '09.

sqcomp · 10-12-2010, 01:26 AM

Oh yeah, the '09 is a real 4 Volt. The nice thing about that tuner is that it is a great CD transport. That CDS button is great for tuning and RTA work. Signal Voltage is life! I'm working with 4.9 unclipped Volts with my tune now.

p123456789 · 10-12-2010, 12:52 PM

I think my rca's are just junk I used scosche rca's from walmart so I think I might upgrade those. the music sound really dirty when I turn it up loud like you can't tell one not from the other they all kinda flow together. or it could be my kenwood components I might go get some alpine 3 ways and ditch the component setup. does a good set of rca's make a difference can you use household rca's?. I also swapped amps and it sounds exactly the same I swapped to a jbl 4 channel.

derickveliz2 · 10-12-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palmer812

Yes clipping is distortion. The easiest way to set the gain on an amplifier with no special tools required is to start with the amplifier all the way down. Then set your headunit to 3/4 volume and then slowly bring up the gain on the amplifier until is starts to clip. As far as what sub you need for that box we need to know more. What size is the box and what size is the port?

Could you guys describe me "Clipping"?

Thanks

Alien Mantis · 10-12-2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

Could you guys describe me "Clipping"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_%28audio%29

I believe you were going to tell us what subwoofer setup you decided to try?

*AHEM*

derickveliz2 · 10-12-2010, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alien Mantis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_%28audio%29

I believe you were going to tell us what subwoofer setup you decided to try?

*AHEM*

Thanks, I didn't forget !

I'm still getting quotes from different dealers, looks like it would be a 12" (?)

.

10-10-2010, 09:55 PM	#1
p123456789 Drives: 07 lb jeep tj Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: dirty south Posts: 126	2 amps on stock atl? I have some kenwood components with a small 2 channel amp (20 amp fuse). I would like to add a sub because the components just aren't cutting it in the low end department, I was wondering if 2 amps would kill the stock alternator my component amp is 150 watts rms and I'd like to add a 400 watt rms subwoofer amp and run a obcon godzilla box that my neighbor gave to me. my car has no power options so hopefully another amp wont kill it.

10-10-2010, 10:34 PM	#3
fnkngrv Mr. 155 and climbing View User's Garage Drives: Seriously Modded 07 Sedan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In The Hotbox Posts: 4,742	other information that you will need to verify is what your voltage is that is being provided from your HU to those amps. With more efficient signals comes cleaner power; cleaner power means less work for your amps and I would think less work by your alternator. I am sure that someone will chime in and correct me however I can tell you from my experience and watching voltmeters, etc I have noticed a difference. Either way, I am running my Bazooka at full gain (200 RMS) and my Alpine PDX four channel amp at 3/4 gain which is pushing I believe about 80 RMS to each of my drivers plus all of the other custom electrical draw without issue so I would wager you will be fine. __________________ Team Tiamat Racing on Facebook Youtube Channel: Team Tiamat Racing *Class record holder in Land Speed @ 154.5mph for 1.5 mile and 145.5mph in the mile in the F (2.016 to 3.014 L), G (1.524 to 2.015 L), and H (1.016 to 1.523 L) classes.*

10-11-2010, 01:29 AM	#4
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	The gain adjustment on the amplifier raise the sensitivity of the amplifier to the incoming signal Voltage. If one has the amp's gains cranked like that, I'd be more than willing to wager that on the top end of your volume that it can get pretty noisy. "In my opinion (and MANY will disagree), the gains should be set so that the amplifier reaches full power just as the head unit reaches maximum output. This would allow you to use the entire range of the volume control (assuming that the head unit doesn't clip at full volume) and still get full power out of the amplifier. If you're an audiophile who likes listening to a flat response AND you have a speaker system that produces a flat response AND are listening to music that's properly recorded AND you've purchased the right amplifier, setting the gains like this will prevent clipping (again, assuming that the head unit doesn't clip at full volume). If you're into quality over quantity, this is (IMO) the best setup." -BCAE1.com Aside from that side issue, the amplifiers load on your alternator is minimal DEPENDING on how hard you're railing on the volume. Our OEM alternators aren't particularly beefy. They are decent quality though. If loading your alternator down makes you nervous, consider my situation. I'm running three Audison LRx amplifiers off my alternator. I still have a good 14.3 Volts on startup and hover at 13.8 to 14 Volts driving to and from work. There are times when I have dipped the running Voltage down to 12.9. That was at idle and pulling a 2 Ohm mono load on my LRx 2.9 sub amplifier...something I normally don't do. In that situation I was testing out a pre loaded digital designs enclosure. Here's something to read: "If you have an alternator that can produce 120 amps of current (max) and the the total current demand from the electrical accessories (including the battery) is only 20 amps, the alternator will only produce the necessary current (20 amps) to maintain the target voltage (which is determined by the alternator's internal voltage regulator). Remember that the alternator monitors the electrical system's voltage. If the voltage starts to fall below the target voltage (approximately 13.8 volts depending on the alternator's design), the alternator produces more current to keep the voltage up. When the demand for current is low, the full current capacity of the alternator is not used/produced (a 120 amp alternator does not continuously produce 120 amps unless there is a sufficient current draw)." - BCAE1.com The short answer to your question is...you'll be fine for the most part I'm sure. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine Last edited by sqcomp; 10-11-2010 at 02:03 AM.

10-11-2010, 12:58 PM	#6
TheDriver916 View User's Garage Drives: 2008 yaris sedan Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 41	i have a kicker zx350.4 for my mids and highs and a alpine mrp 500 both beating at the same time and only on long low bass notes will my lights dim. I was pretty impressed that it handles it no problem. __________________ one day my yaris will beat me go kart..

10-11-2010, 12:59 PM	#7
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Notice that the gain management ditty I have up there notes about quality listening. A lot of people, I'd estimate at least 90%, don't give a hoot about non-clipped signals. I'm not suggesting that you need to trade in what you have. Rather just to be aware about the different Voltage outputs on source units. If you have a "weaker output", let's say 2 Volts, your amp gains are going to need to be cracked open more to be more sensitive to the lower Voltage that the source supplies. I'd imagine that since you're on a budget you don't want to spend the money, probably an hours worth of labor, to have a reputable shop level match your source and amps. There area couple of solutions but the involve spending a little more money to buy test speakers and what not. By ear is probably the way you'll go. Just know when you set your gains by ear, by the time you hear distortion, clipping has already been happening for a bit. As for reccomendations? I'd want to know the power handling of the sub...actually...makes me wonder what you're looking for overall. I have heard a loaded enclosure with an 8" sub that destroys...I mean absolutely DESTROYS most vented 12"s on the market. Let's talk more about what you want. TD916 - What have you done for upgrades on your charging system? I'm running with 165 Amps of potential draw and at my loudest I don't dim...although, now that I think about it, I'm running HIDs so they wouldn't anyway. They'd just shut off. Regardless, you're obviously having some Voltage draw issues. Have you even stuck a Voltimeter on your system to see what is happening? __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

10-10-2010, 10:03 PM	#2
Palmer812 Drives: 2010 Meteorite Metallic LB Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 251	You will be fine. That is not alot of power.

10-11-2010, 07:48 AM	#5
p123456789 Drives: 07 lb jeep tj Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: dirty south Posts: 126	thanks for the help sq comp I think if your car can handle those three huge amps my car should have no problem with my two smaller amps. so what your saying is that I need to set my amp up so I can still use the full volume level? and how do I know which amp to buy according to which head unit I have a pioneer premier and I'm running a mtx rpt 202 I only paid 20 bucks for the amp on ebay and it was local so I couldnt pass it up. I listen to every kind of music out there mostly rock though, can you recommend a good amp for a single 12 inch sub? I think i'm getting a obcon gozilla box because I can get it dirt cheap although it does have some damage on one of the corners that I think I can fix.

10-11-2010, 05:30 PM	#8
TheDriver916 View User's Garage Drives: 2008 yaris sedan Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 41	i havent put a volt meter on it yet but im guessing im hovering around 12.5, and i dont push my system hard for long periods of time. Im a wuss and im always worrying about burning up the voice coils lol __________________ one day my yaris will beat me go kart..

10-11-2010, 07:40 PM	#9
Palmer812 Drives: 2010 Meteorite Metallic LB Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 251	SQ, you are right but most head units on the market nowadays do clip. Your's is an exception. The $1000 Alpine I have has a sorry 2 volt and starts to clip at 24-25 out of 35. I have had an Alpine 7909AE and a Nakamichi CD700 that wouldn't clip at all. My sub amp is close to full gain but my 4 channel is just over half. I have it bridged to 300x2 on my fronts.

10-11-2010, 08:14 PM	#10
p123456789 Drives: 07 lb jeep tj Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: dirty south Posts: 126	I have 4v pre outs on my pioneer premier hu should I run my amp at 3/4 so? also my neighbor gave me an obcon godzilla single 12'' ported box what sub is a good match for this box I listen to mostly hard rock. what does clipping sound like, does it sorta sound like distortion?

10-11-2010, 08:42 PM	#11
Palmer812 Drives: 2010 Meteorite Metallic LB Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 251	Yes clipping is distortion. The easiest way to set the gain on an amplifier with no special tools required is to start with the amplifier all the way down. Then set your headunit to 3/4 volume and then slowly bring up the gain on the amplifier until is starts to clip. As far as what sub you need for that box we need to know more. What size is the box and what size is the port?

10-11-2010, 09:19 PM	#12
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	To add more to what Palmer is saying, when you HEAR the clipping, it's bad. Mmmmm'kay? :D A lot of lower end source units clip at full volume (regrettably). So 3/4 volume isn't a bad idea per se...it just limits the total range of the Voltage. It keeps you safe though. The amps gains having to be at 3/4? Well, there's just something wrong there then. That means that the Voltage from the source isn't what it advertises. 4 true Volts should be plenty. Actually that's what I run my source at "max", a little over 4 Volts. I scoped mine though and set it accordingly. Palmer...7909 love over here! That was my first tuner. The 25th anniversary '09. It is a wonderful deck. I had fun with the Naks as well working for my first audio shop. Try to scope your amps with those gain settings at the speaker outs on the amps. Something tells me you'll be suprised how much clipping you see. Driver...if you're hovering around 12.5 Volts, that's something serious. That means your battery is holding your system up. Take a startup read off the alternator if at all possible. Hell, I wouldn't worry about the voice coils! I'd think long and hard about the charging system. You can still drive without subs, you can't do squat without an alternator. Believe me, it happened to me once many years ago. It won't happen again. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

10-11-2010, 09:49 PM	#13
Palmer812 Drives: 2010 Meteorite Metallic LB Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 251	My 7909 was a 30th. anniversary that I got dirt cheap. I regret ever selling it. When I sold it I put in a then top of the line Alpine deck that was supposed to be 4 volt. That was bs. I had to regain both of my amps and I still couldn't get it as loud as it was with the '09.

10-12-2010, 01:26 AM	#14
sqcomp Roadrunner Jr. View User's Garage Drives: 2007 Yaris S Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Back at home Posts: 2,609	Oh yeah, the '09 is a real 4 Volt. The nice thing about that tuner is that it is a great CD transport. That CDS button is great for tuning and RTA work. Signal Voltage is life! I'm working with 4.9 unclipped Volts with my tune now. __________________ “To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead.” ― Thomas Paine

10-12-2010, 12:52 PM	#15
p123456789 Drives: 07 lb jeep tj Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: dirty south Posts: 126	I think my rca's are just junk I used scosche rca's from walmart so I think I might upgrade those. the music sound really dirty when I turn it up loud like you can't tell one not from the other they all kinda flow together. or it could be my kenwood components I might go get some alpine 3 ways and ditch the component setup. does a good set of rca's make a difference can you use household rca's?. I also swapped amps and it sounds exactly the same I swapped to a jbl 4 channel.

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