From a BMW blog...What's really killing the manual transmission?

[nookandcrannycar]

Some interesting differences between Europe and the U.S.

http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/03/12/wh...ells-us-story/

[Kalispel]

My 2015 Yaris SE (which I am loving) is in all likelihood my last manual-transmission vehicle - though age has more to do with that eventual decision than preference. Since I am 50 years old, assuming that my Yaris isn't wrecked, I will be somewhere around 60 years old when I finally buy another car (and it will be my first automatic). I actually came close to buying an automatic Yaris SE this time around.

I don't hate automatics, I just don't find them very engaging/fun to drive, and I feel more like a passenger than a driver. Also, I cannot comment on future incarnations, but the current CVT is even worse in that regard than a regular automatic. I will still stick (no pun intended ) to fun little subcompact/compact-sized cars though, be they hatchbacks or sedans. What can I say - In certain ways, I am just a kid that never grew up.

I wonder if a new Yaris will be around in 2025 (and made by Toyota)?

[bronsin]

Autonomous cars will be the end of MTs if they ever catchon/prove practical.

MTs are safer because they safely slow down when you take your foot off the gas. ATs keep on going!

I strongly disagree with the article when it says 8 speed trannys get better mpg than say 4 speeds. Not if all things are equal!

[why?]

today's current automatics, no matter the technology, get better gas mileage. Technology marches on. When cars come with so many computers and sensors they know exactly what you want and can give it to you, what is the point of a manual transmission.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

Autonomous cars will be the end of MTs if they ever catchon/prove practical.

Sadly, this is true....but what an incredible waste....so much missed enjoyment.

MTs are safer because they safely slow down when you take your foot off the gas. ATs keep on going!

Also, although an automatic will rarely not go into neutral when you select neutral, you are much more assured of actually being in neutral when doing so with a manual.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by why?

today's current automatics, no matter the technology, get better gas mileage. Technology marches on. When cars come with so many computers and sensors they know exactly what you want and can give it to you, what is the point of a manual transmission.

2 reasons that I can think of off the top of my head...

1. Less likely to get stolen because only a certain subset of thieves will know how to drive a manual.

2. What if the car won't quite start? I've heard it is theorecticaly possible to compression start an automatic, but compression starting a manual = MUCH easier.

[bronsin]

Originally Posted by why?

what is the point of a manual transmission.

My 2001 ECHO got 40 mpg in town and 53 mpg @65 mph highway with a MT. The best my Yaris has been able to do is 36 in town and 42 highway at 60-65 mph. ATs definitely aren't there yet mpg wise.

A MT will slow down much more quickly than an AT when you take your foot off the gas. So many times you don't need to use the brakes. Using the brakes is bad. On a motorcycle, when traction conditions deteriorate, it can lead to a skid and you hitting the road. OR, if you swerve and apply the brakes at the same time, the bike hits the ground so fast you wont even realize it. Cars aren't so sensitive but the principle is the same. the more you keep from using the brakes the better. Especially in poor traction situations.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by bronsin

So many times you don't need to use the brakes.

Yep. The brakes on my '07.....not very worn at all in 300,125 miles. Trini got, IIRC, got 448,000 miles out of his originals (lots of freeway driving...but one can see from his videos that he drives his Yaris pretty hard), and I think yaris9876 just replaced his originals (or plans to do so soon) at 500,000 miles.

[Kalispel]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

Yep. The brakes on my '07.....not very worn at all in 300,125 miles. Trini got, IIRC, got 448,000 miles out of his originals (lots of freeway driving...but one can see from his videos that he drives his Yaris pretty hard), and I think yaris9876 just replaced his originals (or plans to do so soon) at 500,000 miles.

I'm a people watcher, and I notice every morning that most drivers speed up to every red light and then hit the brakes at the last moment every time. When the light turns green, they gun it and take off like they are being chased by the police - all the way to the next red light.

When I see that the light is red down the road, I let my foot off the gas accordingly, and the light usually turns green before I ever get to it. It saves wear and tear on both my brakes and my clutch, and just seems like a smart/safe way to drive. People behind me, however, seem to get mad or impatient, even though the light is clearly red ahead, and often pass me in the other lane and speed up to the red light just to stop and wait.

A lot of people also seem to get annoyed/angry that I casually drive the speed limit (or no more than +5 mph), even though I stay in the right-most "slow" lane while on multi-lane roads. I'm never in a hurry, and always give myself proper time to get to my destinations. Sorry that you are running late and don't allocate your time properly. Most human primates really crack me up.

[NYC-SE]

Originally Posted by Kalispel

I'm a people watcher, and I notice every morning that most drivers speed up to every red light and then hit the brakes at the last moment every time. When the light turns green, they gun it and take off like they are being chased by the police - all the way to the next red light.

When I see that the light is red down the road, I let my foot off the gas accordingly, and the light usually turns green before I ever get to it. It saves wear and tear on both my brakes and my clutch, and just seems like a smart/safe way to drive. People behind me, however, seem to get mad or impatient, even though the light is clearly red ahead, and often pass me in the other lane and speed up to the red light just to stop and wait.

A lot of people also seem to get annoyed/angry that I casually drive the speed limit (or no more than +5 mph), even though I stay in the right-most "slow" lane while on multi-lane roads. I'm never in a hurry, and always give myself proper time to get to my destinations. Sorry that you are running late and don't allocate your time properly. Most human primates really crack me up.

I think that describes people everywhere. I have no interest in racing you to the next red light, I'll meet you there. Also feel no need to dart back and forth between lanes at the first sign of space opening up. Love when I see someone doing this and then winds up behind me when he can't get back over.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Kalispel

I'm a people watcher, and I notice every morning that most drivers speed up to every red light and then hit the brakes at the last moment every time. When the light turns green, they gun it and take off like they are being chased by the police - all the way to the next red light.

I've only personally noticed this in Texas and in Florida and, IMO, it is rampant in both places. I mentioned this at one time to one of my cousins, and he busted out laughing. He's been back in California for quite awhile, but he attended ASU for grad school and ended up staying in the Phoenix metro for 10 years afterward. His experience...very similar to yours. The added twist to this in Texas and Florida (and in AZ ?) that makes this even worse is that people will do this AND TURN RIGHT AT THE NEXT STREET (COMING UP QUICKLY) WHEN THAT NEXT STREET IS NOT A 'STOP SIGNED or SIGNALED' INTERSECTION !!!

When I see that the light is red down the road, I let my foot off the gas accordingly, and the light usually turns green before I ever get to it. It saves wear and tear on both my brakes and my clutch, and just seems like a smart/safe way to drive. People behind me, however, seem to get mad or impatient, even though the light is clearly red ahead, and often pass me in the other lane and speed up to the red light just to stop and wait.

A lot of people also seem to get annoyed/angry that I casually drive the speed limit (or no more than +5 mph), even though I stay in the right-most "slow" lane while on multi-lane roads. I'm never in a hurry, and always give myself proper time to get to my destinations. Sorry that you are running late and don't allocate your time properly. Most human primates really crack me up.

Great explanation of the way I drive as well....and also the reactions I get. I also occasionally get people flipping me off. The last one I remember was an old man driving a brand new RX series Lexus SUV .

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by NYC-SE

I think that describes people everywhere. I have no interest in racing you to the next red light, I'll meet you there. Also feel no need to dart back and forth between lanes at the first sign of space opening up. Love when I see someone doing this and then winds up behind me when he can't get back over.

Some people in the BOS-WASH corridor drive me nuts for other reasons, but I have generally experienced that drivers in your neck of the woods are MUCH better drivers than drivers in Texas and Florida...and even in California as well. There are so many idiot drivers in Texas and in Florida.....has to be experienced to be believed.

[Kalispel]

Originally Posted by NYC-SE

I think that describes people everywhere. I have no interest in racing you to the next red light, I'll meet you there. Also feel no need to dart back and forth between lanes at the first sign of space opening up. Love when I see someone doing this and then winds up behind me when he can't get back over.

Yeah, the personality types who dart in and out of lanes and always seem in a hurry really scare me - and are usually the ones who end up causing the accidents.

[Lux]

Originally Posted by why?

today's current automatics, no matter the technology, get better gas mileage. Technology marches on. When cars come with so many computers and sensors they know exactly what you want and can give it to you, what is the point of a manual transmission.

It isn't "technology" that has developed automatic gearboxes to be, relatively, more efficient... It is still torque transfer by fluid coupling and it is still a net loss in kinetic energy... most of which is to the hydraulic pump and its pressure relief.

Newer automatic gearboxes benefit from early shift logic, different valve duration, timing, and lift variables to maximize low-rev torque, and absurdly tall high gearing combined with early torque convertor lock-up.

Give a manual gearbox the same gearing and camshafts and it will make an automatic equivalent look like a complete joke.