Yaris Sedan Deadening and Sound system upgrade

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

I'm doing a demo tomorrow.... another P99 owner with Focal speakers mmm... we'll see!

D.

If this had been a competition, guess who WON!....



ps....
That's him: p99rs, boston acoustics gt-5750: focal 165vrs, seas tffnc/g and focal sb25a1; rockford fosgate r150-2: tang band 1362sa


D.

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[sqcomp]

The new woofer is going to tooling soon. We should have a test mule in a month or two for testing.

[sqcomp]

...I'd bet you you'd be even better with an SE midrange in there...

I wish I could be there mang. Still, I have complete confidence in what you're doing D. I also wish you could be down at Spring Break in Daytona over the weekend of the 23rd. There's going to be world class systems going head to head in competition. I know you'd dig that.

Was it Focal's shallow mount Polyglass line component mid bass you were listening to? A Boston Acoustics 5 channel (75 x 5 & 250 x 1), a preloaded Focal woofer, a SEAS tweeter, What was the Tang Band and the RF amp for?

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

...I'd bet you you'd be even better with an SE midrange in there...

I wish I could be there mang. Still, I have complete confidence in what you're doing D. I also wish you could be down at Spring Break in Daytona over the weekend of the 23rd. There's going to be world class systems going head to head in competition. I know you'd dig that.

Was it Focal's shallow mount Polyglass line component mid bass you were listening to? A Boston Acoustics 5 channel (75 x 5 & 250 x 1), a preloaded Focal woofer, a SEAS tweeter, What was the Tang Band and the RF amp for?

I know L3SEs is what I'm missing now, to be a complete HAT system. (some day!)

I wish you where here too, you would be proud of me! I wish I could go to Daytona, but... that's the price I have to pay for 2 beautiful children that keep me and my lovely wife very busy. (O:

I think he had the TB on the doors, the 3" Focal and SEAS tweeters on PVC pods up on the a-pillars, and 10 in Focal woofer in a ported box in the back, Yes 2 amps the BA and the RF, on a 05 Toyota Matrix.

D.

[derickveliz2]

I had this asked many times in other forums, and I would like to share here:

Lets talk about deadening a car:

Ok, first lets recognize there are 2 types of deadening, what is your target?

1.- a system to Block noise (road, engine, wind, rain, exhaust, etc)

2.- a system to reduce rattles and condition a car acoustically (also helps to reduce road noise but not as effective as #1


To accomplish 1, you need:
-CLD Tiles (expensive) you only need to cover 25% of the area this prevents vibrations
-CCFoam 1/8" or 1/4" works good, this helps absorb high frequencies and prevent rattles
-MLV, mass loaded vinyl, to block the noise

To accomplish 2, you need:
-inexpensive MAT, 1 or 2 layers of 100 coverage is common. You can use expensive stuff too, but that is up to you!
-CCFoam 1/8" to prevent rattles and smooth edges

For example, I did #1 on the floors and wheel wells,
I did #1 on the rear doors (no speakers there)
I did #1 and #2 on front doors where my Mid-Bass speakers are.

so... what would you like to accomplish?

Here is some good reading:

LINK

D.

[sqcomp]

How was his stage height and width?

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by sqcomp

How was his stage height and width?

Height was 2-3 inches above dashboard (1 or 2 inches under my chin)

Width was not good on SQ tracks like Left, Right Center about 2-3 inches inside the a-pillars very narrow, in some songs was just a little bit wider but that was because MIds+Tweets where aiming at center of the car, more on axis and reflexions on the side glass made it feel slightly wider but once we opened the windows the width was gone.

Center image was not in the center, way over to the left side almost touching the Mids right in front of my face, Time Alignment wasn't done properly the same for x-over points, didn't aloud for Point source! Mid-Bass (LOWs) cross above 600 Hz and Mids sounded hallow in 3.5" PVC caps

D.

[TOLMACH]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

Height was 2-3 inches above dashboard (1 or 2 inches under my chin)

Width was not good on SQ tracks like Left, Right Center about 2-3 inches inside the a-pillars very narrow, in some songs was just a little bit wider but that was because MIds+Tweets where aiming at center of the car, more on axis and reflexions on the side glass made it feel slightly wider but once we opened the windows the width was gone.

Center image was not in the center, way over to the left side almost touching the Mids right in front of my face, Time Alignment wasn't done properly the same for x-over points, didn't aloud for Point source! Mid-Bass (LOWs) cross above 600 Hz and Mids sounded hallow in 3.5" PVC caps

D.

How did his system sound?

Do you guys buy stuff to listen and enjoy music or you buy music to listen to the stuff that you installed ?

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by TOLMACH

How did his system sound?

Do you guys buy stuff to listen and enjoy music or you buy music to listen to the stuff that you installed ?

He's system is miles behind mine (install and tunning), he has mids and tweeters similar to what I did at the beginning (see image below)

He doesn't understands PLDs, Time Alignment, Imaging, staging, linearity, tonal accuracy, depth, point source, width and center image along with other stuff, so his HU (another P99 like mine) makes every thing sound, crisp and clean but the 3D factor is missing from the equation.

So far I didn't have to pay for any Reference Tracks (I would now that I know how important and beneficial are), I do enjoy my music specially after using Tracks to improve my system.

It's not just about "sounds good and loud", to me the COOL FACTOR is 3Dimensional!

D.

[derickveliz2]

At PJM...

My amps are behind front seats...



D.

[derickveliz2]

Did I forget to mention that the BASS was from a focal sb25a1.... Here is where the I6SW shines! not only because it's up front but this 10" woofer in a ported box falls short compare to the I6SW.

The I6SW it's so cool, it's not like other woofers that hurt your ears and make all the car shake, it's like a hard thump that hits your chest.



vrs...









D.

[derickveliz2]

Some other info about deadening... NOTE: this is some information I saved trying to help another car-audio enthusiast, you can take this as an advice, but not like a book, many people have their own opinions and we respect them all.

Noise comes from the road, tires, engine. Focus on the floor, wheel wells, fire wall!

Yes treat the doors like speaker boxes, you will need some extra mat to give the metal some mass and ccfoam to prevent ratles + MLV to block road noise.

Next: (measure in square feet)
-doors
-floor
-wheel wells
-quarter panels

Basic rule of thumb you only need 25% of a flat area to cover with Tiles, these are expensive and it's good to spend the money here, for example, a door is 4 sf you need 1 sf of tiles

CLD Tiles I recommend you buy them with Don Sambroke or Second Skin

LINK 1

LINK 2

also buy at least 2 ropes of butyl LINK 3

Glue for MLV and heavy duty velcro in LINK 4

You can also buy 1/4" ccfoam from Don in LINK 5

now all these is what you need for deadening your car for road noise, and rattles...

but for example the doors you will need more mass from any kind of MAT (don't use CLD Tiles too expensive), you can buy any one you like, I got mine from Rick at RAAMAT it's cheap and works OK, LINK 6

so lets say you have 100 sf of area to work with (I did 100 so you can come up with a percentage)

100 sf of MLV (this one you can buy cheap here LINK 7 or buy from Don or Second skin, but it's a little bit more expensive.

100 sf of ccfoam, get 50sf of 1/8" and 50sf of 1/4" Don sells you the best one in this class, Second Skin is a little bit more expensive. You can also get this stuff from Rick but it's very thin but sticks like a steaker LINK 9

25 sf of CLD Tiles from LINK 1

and 50 sf of any MAT you like, in my case from RAAMAT ** I was just checking with raamaudio and they don't carry any more the cheap stuff, try to call Rick and ask him if he still carries the old RAAMmat I . the new stuff is here LINK 8

or if you want to get all at once and save on shipping call Don Sambroke and tell him my name (Derick Veliz) [I did this at the beginning then I needed some extra stuff and I got it at LINK 7



D.

[alfredyeez]

Originally Posted by derickveliz2

Some other info about deadening... NOTE: this is some information I saved trying to help another car-audio enthusiast, you can take this as an advice, but not like a book, many people have their own opinions and we respect them all.

Noise comes from the road, tires, engine. Focus on the floor, wheel wells, fire wall!

Yes treat the doors like speaker boxes, you will need some extra mat to give the metal some mass and ccfoam to prevent ratles + MLV to block road noise.

Next: (measure in square feet)
-doors
-floor
-wheel wells
-quarter panels

Basic rule of thumb you only need 25% of a flat area to cover with Tiles, these are expensive and it's good to spend the money here, for example, a door is 4 sf you need 1 sf of tiles

CLD Tiles I recommend you buy them with Don Sambroke or Second Skin

LINK 1

LINK 2

also buy at least 2 ropes of butyl LINK 3

Glue for MLV and heavy duty velcro in LINK 4

You can also buy 1/4" ccfoam from Don in LINK 5

now all these is what you need for deadening your car for road noise, and rattles...

but for example the doors you will need more mass from any kind of MAT (don't use CLD Tiles too expensive), you can buy any one you like, I got mine from Rick at RAAMAT it's cheap and works OK, LINK 6

so lets say you have 100 sf of area to work with (I did 100 so you can come up with a percentage)

100 sf of MLV (this one you can buy cheap here LINK 7 or buy from Don or Second skin, but it's a little bit more expensive.

100 sf of ccfoam, get 50sf of 1/8" and 50sf of 1/4" Don sells you the best one in this class, Second Skin is a little bit more expensive. You can also get this stuff from Rick but it's very thin but sticks like a steaker LINK 9

25 sf of CLD Tiles from LINK 1

and 50 sf of any MAT you like, in my case from RAAMAT ** I was just checking with raamaudio and they don't carry any more the cheap stuff, try to call Rick and ask him if he still carries the old RAAMmat I . the new stuff is here LINK 8

or if you want to get all at once and save on shipping call Don Sambroke and tell him my name (Derick Veliz) [I did this at the beginning then I needed some extra stuff and I got it at LINK 7



D.

Nice job on your car!!!

Been following your posts and noticed that you have not used any 3M Thinsulate™ Acoustic that's also available from Don.

Any particular reason?

Thanks

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by alfredyeez

Nice job on your car!!!

Been following your posts and noticed that you have not used any 3M Thinsulate™ Acoustic that's also available from Don.

Any particular reason?

Thanks

It just came into the market, back then Don recommended me to use a heat barrier (see below) the 3M Thinsulate Acoustic is brand new and works as a combination of a heat barrier plus some CCFoam, that reflects heat and absorbs noise... but it's not a "sound barrier" it self Like MLV!

I used the a radiant barrier most of the floor where the exhaust is under to protect the amps from heat and under the dashboard to protect the HU.


See POST # 263 and 295 for more information below...

D.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

POST #263

Originally Posted by Herbicidal

I was describing to my wife all the different layers of sound deadening material you're doing and she said it sounds like you're creating a mobil sensory deprivation chamber!

I wish! but sounds COOL ..............




and Talking about layers I just added one MORE!

Radiant Barrier

I'm putting this along the center channel and other areas after applying CLD Tiles and before CCF adn MLV, I've driving with no center console, bare metal and I can tell it gets HOT! the other day I had a Hershey chocolate about 4 inches above, and it melted!

I guess this heat going inside the cabin it's good in winter, but not good in summer, any way one more barrier to make the noisy work harder!



__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

POST #295

Originally Posted by talnlnky

I'm actually contemplating foregoing any mat on the firewall, and just doing MLV alone.
40sq ft of MLV Then around 25sq ft of mat, and 4 CLD's. that would really cut my costs. I'd be down to around $150, before I was over $200.

OEM deadening material





Taking a break!




Clean!





2 CLD Tiles.





Some of that Radiant heat insulator...




1/4" CCF and ready for MLV





With no MLV to work last night I started playing around with the amps, the 3rd amp will be here soon, maybe I'll put it under the passengers seat? or in line with these 2. I didn't realize they where so big and heavy

"I just added this picture as a reference for the MLV layer on top:"










I would use it now, I don't see why not?

D.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by alfredyeez

Nice job on your car!!!

Thank you!

D.

[alfredyeez]

Thanks for the clarification on Thinsulate.

Will continue to follow the development of your car

[patm]

Nice summary for reference.

[derickveliz2]

Originally Posted by patm

Nice summary for reference.

Thanks PATM,

here is a sketch (a door section)... deadening:

NOTE: this is more for a door with a Mid-bass speaker in other words for FRONT Doors!



D.