Speeding camera ticket in Ohio?

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

Well my from understanding, Cleveland (maybe all of Ohio?) has cameras that ONLY shoot the rear of the car. They can't tell who is driving. I think that is main reason for photo tickets being issued are to the owner of the car and are not criminal offenses but civil offenses. They can't tell who's driving the car, they just know that the car was speeding. I guess it's like a parking ticket...they don't know who parked the car in the wrong place or time, they just know that it's wrong. At least that's how it was explained to me on the phone before. That's why the tickets are just a pay it and it doesn't go on your record or drivers license.

If you were to go to court, you have the right to face your accuser. Pictures can come to court but the eyewitness (the camera) can't. It's stuck on the corner of some street. That's why it can only go as far as the cameras pictures I guess, beyond that, they can't pin it to any one person...just the car owner.

The way it is done here -- where you are forced to pay it to renew your registration or sign an affidavit saying it wasn't you....all that does is pile up costs, no other consequences. But potentially affecting your credit on an assumption.....that is a very different animal.

[detroiter]

Yeah, I think thats how they explained it to me too. Something about when you go to renew your plates, that it won't let you renew them until it's paid. Something about sending it to a credit bureau as well. Kind of find it rediculous that a corporation is running the speed cameras, taking a percentage of the tickets paid and yet, somehow they enforce it. They are NOT the law and I don't see any reason why there should be any upholding of the offenses at all. It would be no different than if I stood on a corner with a little speed gun in my hand and my digital camera, taking pictures of people I thought were breaking the law and then turning in my evidence to the police.

I'm not law enforcement and I don't have legal power to enforce the laws either. Neither should some corporation.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

Yeah, I think thats how they explained it to me too. Something about when you go to renew your plates, that it won't let you renew them until it's paid. Something about sending it to a credit bureau as well. Kind of find it rediculous that a corporation is running the speed cameras, taking a percentage of the tickets paid and yet, somehow they enforce it. They are NOT the law and I don't see any reason why there should be any upholding of the offenses at all. It would be no different than if I stood on a corner with a little speed gun in my hand and my digital camera, taking pictures of people I thought were breaking the law and then turning in my evidence to the police.

I'm not law enforcement and I don't have legal power to enforce the laws either. Neither should some corporation.

Do you know if they were recording your conversation? It is beginning to sound like they may have run your plates through a company that sells and matches information and matched your car plates to your social security number. Then when someone calls, and can quickly rattle off that social security number, they'd have the credibility of that fast id, plus your voice on tape. I know in the 1990s, businesses in Ohio could record conversations with their customers if they obtained the customer's permission. I don't know if that has changed or not, or if that would apply to you, as you aren't really buying a product.

I'm glad the county is doing this near me, rather than a private company. South of me, the City of Houston really created a mess with an outside private contract....sounds like Cleveland has a similar arrangement.

[detroiter]

I can't recall if it says that they record or not. I called back after that woman hung up on me and a guy was able to help me out...Basically if you don't have a ticket number (i never received one but wanted to see if one was issued), they can look it up by your SS#. The ticket is a pay it and never hear about it again, he even stated it's just like parking ticket.


The corporation they are using is Redflex. I think Cleveland gets 51% of the cut...the rest goes to Redflex.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

I can't recall if it says that they record or not. I called back after that woman hung up on me and a guy was able to help me out...Basically if you don't have a ticket number (i never received one but wanted to see if one was issued), they can look it up by your SS#. The ticket is a pay it and never hear about it again, he even stated it's just like parking ticket.


The corporation they are using is Redflex. I think Cleveland gets 51% of the cut...the rest goes to Redflex.

Did they give you an approval number or reference number?

In the City of Houston the taxpayers, from what I can find, aren't out any money for the contract...yet. The voters voted out the cameras in 2010. The mayor and city council collectively dragged their feet until August of 2011 and then turned the cameras off. The contracted company, American Traffic Solutions, is suing the city for "as much as" 25 million USD.

[Absolutely Red 12]

Red light cameras posed a $450 fine in Los Angeles, was it profitable? Nope, they remove all but the ones at rail lines.

[Absolutely Red 12]

Originally Posted by nookandcrannycar

LOL. There was a section on my ticket that would be an affidavit where the addressee could state they weren't driving the car. This p****d me off. This isn't 18th Century France (Yet ), with the Napoleonic Code. IMO, the burden of proof should be on the government. I shouldn't have to state anything or swear to anything.

IF you state, and swear, "it wasn't me", then you have just testified, and will be compelled to show up to court, and continue to testify.

If its not clear on the picture who was driving, then all you do is plead not guilty (in writing), and ask the court to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was you, will not be compelled to testify, as you made a statement any attorney would make. The court can not compel you to testify, you won't be lying, nor forced to state whom it was.

I knew a woman who got a red light ticket in the mail, and her 200lb bearded son was driving her car. She mailed a copy of her drivers license, and pleaded not guilty, and asked the judge to prove thats her in the red light picture, based on her license.
Case was dismissed!!!

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Absolutely Red 12

IF you state, and swear, "it wasn't me", then you have just testified, and will be compelled to show up to court, and continue to testify.

If its not clear on the picture who was driving, then all you do is plead not guilty (in writing), and ask the court to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt it was you, will not be compelled to testify, as you made a statement any attorney would make. The court can not compel you to testify, you won't be lying, nor forced to state whom it was.

I knew a woman who got a red light ticket in the mail, and her 200lb bearded son was driving her car. She mailed a copy of her drivers license, and pleaded not guilty, and asked the judge to prove thats her in the red light picture, based on her license.
Case was dismissed!!!

I'll have to remember that if it happens to me again. But in Detroiter's situation, where they are talking about his credit and the administrative end is being handled by a private company, what would keep them from ignoring a written not guilty statement and just raising the fees and putting it on his credit? He might be able to get it reversed in the end, but would all that hassle be worth $75.00 ? I think they know most people won't feel that it is.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by Absolutely Red 12

Red light cameras posed a $450 fine in Los Angeles, was it profitable? Nope, they remove all but the ones at rail lines.

SMH, SMH, SMH -- The land of the single 500 million dollar school.

[detroiter]

What it boils down to is I'm about 90% sure I didn't get a ticket because I didn't see a flash from the camera as far as I can recall (after watching some youtube videos of other drivers in Cleveland getting flashed...it would be really hard to not notice) but if for some 10% chance I did and it shows up, well I'll just pay the $95 and that's it. Nothing goes on my record, nothing on my license. Just like a parking ticket, it's done and over with forever.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

What it boils down to is I'm about 90% sure I didn't get a ticket because I didn't see a flash from the camera as far as I can recall (after watching some youtube videos of other drivers in Cleveland getting flashed...it would be really hard to not notice) but if for some 10% chance I did and it shows up, well I'll just pay the $95 and that's it. Nothing goes on my record, nothing on my license. Just like a parking ticket, it's done and over with forever.

I understood what you're saying before this post, I was just trying to illustrate to Absolutely Red 12 that I think his suggestion would be prudent for me if this ever happens to me again, but in your situation it wouldn't be prudent because it would be too unproductive to reverse the consequences if the private company ignored the 'plea'.

[detroiter]

Oh absolutely man! As far as I've found out, the most they do is try to take you to debtors court over it...which I think is an extra $50 or so they charge you for court costs in Ohio. So your looking at like $140 paying out total. But from what I've read, there's so many people who are NOT paying these that they are giving "clemency" periods where they say they won't send police to your door to collect and waive fees if you pay what you owe...which in other words means there's so many people that owe that they don't have the manpower to send police out to everyone and they are HOPING that youll pay :)

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

Oh absolutely man! As far as I've found out, the most they do is try to take you to debtors court over it...which I think is an extra $50 or so they charge you for court costs in Ohio. So your looking at like $140 paying out total. But from what I've read, there's so many people who are NOT paying these that they are giving "clemency" periods where they say they won't send police to your door to collect and waive fees if you pay what you owe...which in other words means there's so many people that owe that they don't have the manpower to send police out to everyone and they are HOPING that youll pay :)

In The Woodlands, the lack of an incorporated city prevents what you are describing...but the one thing I accidently left off re the City of Houston (like Cleveland) situation is exactly what you just stated. Besides having the company (ATS) suing the city for stopping the contract, they also have a ton of unpaid balances from people who are as PO'd as the Cleveland people who aren't paying.

[detroiter]

One other question I was wondering about is do speed/red light cameras go off if your a little bit over the fat white stop line? I can understand if you are so far that you are inside the actual crosswalk, but I'm talking about the fat white line that's a ways in front of the actual crosswalk lines. The reason I ask is that we all know these cities with cameras rig the lights so that the yellow changes amazingly quick and then you go "through a red light", according to them. So your only option is to stop real quick before going through the intersection, but it sometimes leaves you with your car being past the fat white line...

Happened to me earlier today and I don't think the cam lights went off but who knows anymore, they try to rape your wallet with any excuse they can find. I'd say I was about as far past the fat white line as maybe my front tires. Another car pulled up to me as well in the next lane and he also was as far as I was over the line, but the camera didn't go off on him.

[nookandcrannycar]

Originally Posted by detroiter

One other question I was wondering about is do speed/red light cameras go off if your a little bit over the fat white stop line? I can understand if you are so far that you are inside the actual crosswalk, but I'm talking about the fat white line that's a ways in front of the actual crosswalk lines. The reason I ask is that we all know these cities with cameras rig the lights so that the yellow changes amazingly quick and then you go "through a red light", according to them. So your only option is to stop real quick before going through the intersection, but it sometimes leaves you with your car being past the fat white line...

Happened to me earlier today and I don't think the cam lights went off but who knows anymore, they try to rape your wallet with any excuse they can find. I'd say I was about as far past the fat white line as maybe my front tires. Another car pulled up to me as well in the next lane and he also was as far as I was over the line, but the camera didn't go off on him.

Good question. I don't know if the answer would depend on which company did the setup and administration of the cameras, which software was used, what the local statute says, or some combination of these. BTW, the 'fat white line' is called the limit line .

[detroiter]

it's the same AUSTRALIAN corporation that runs most of the cameras in the U.S. (and also takes the profits)...Redflex.

Guess not only does this country get sold out manufacturing speaking, but also sold out security wise.

[jambo101]

Here in Montreal they post warnings of upcoming speed cameras about a quarter mile before you pass it,so unless you arent paying attention theres no reason in Montreal to get a ticket from a speed camera..

[detroiter]

I wish Cleveland put it that far ahead...they literally put it about 2 or 3 cars lengths in front of the cameras. Not that anyone should be speeding anyways but kind of defeats the purpose of "safety".