PETERPOOP's Turbo Build Thread.

[PETERPOOP]

Decided not to use the Zage oil pan. After seeing how cydgdydgdyeee explained why the Zage oil pan wouldn't work, I've decided to go a different route.

Will this 5/16" hose fitting be big enough for the oil return line? The oil line that comes with the zage kit doesn't look any bigger than a 1/4 to 5/16".

Thanks to garm for showing where to put the hose fitting. ;)

[cali yaris]

5/16" should be fine. Definitely post pics of your return location when you get to it. Where did I post those? can't find 'em now.

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Good call on the pan, I'm almost positive he's right.

Were you able to drill the block yourself? I really don't want to have a mechanic do it simply because I need a lift to have enough working space.

Lots and lots of pictures please sir.

[PETERPOOP]

I've decided to go with a 3/8" diameter hose, because the bulk head fitting was already 3/8", just had to change the hose connection. Didn't want to drill a bigger hole in the block (time consuming).

This is what I did to drill the hole:


The tools..



Once the car is up on jackstands, you need to jack the axle up. As high as you can, need room to drill the hole.

Stuff rags in oil pan to prevent metal shavings from going in.



Starter hole...



After starter hole, used the step bit to get the right size for fitting.



The axle was in the way, so this is all the height i could get. I think it's high enough?

This is where the full mark is on the tip stick; about two inches.



This picture is to the bottom of the fitting; close to 4 inches. Unless I'm on a crazy hill, the oil should drip in.



I've tee'd off the oil sending unit and have put my oil feed line in place.

More progress will be made during thanksgiving weekend.

[Tamago]

buy a 90 deg fitting and a flare a tube to go to the bottom of the pan. you do NOT want that hot oil hitting anything but oil when it enters the pan... if it comes out into just air, you'll foam your oil and do damage to your engine (much like overfilling will do)

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Originally Posted by Tamago

buy a 90 deg fitting and a flare a tube to go to the bottom of the pan. you do NOT want that hot oil hitting anything but oil when it enters the pan... if it comes out into just air, you'll foam your oil and do damage to your engine (much like overfilling will do)

Ok, so whose right about this? If you have oil hitting oil, then that means your line runs right into the oil, which is going to cause it to back up in the turbocharger. I now know this from experience unfortunately.

But now you're saying oil into air causes foaming? Uh...

Thanks for the pics btw.

[cali yaris]

Charles has his going into the Zage pan with no issues.

[Shinare]

Wouldn't the return line going into the bottom of the pan just back oil up into the line to the level of the oil in the pan? Any new oil coming down the line would push down a little on the level in the line and thus push up a little on the oil in the pan?

Is there no oil pressure on the return line?

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Originally Posted by cali yaris

Charles has his going into the Zage pan with no issues.

Hmm.. Is he using thicker than a -8 AN line? Also possible his banjo bolt has a smaller restricter I guess.

cdydjded, your return is setup just like PETERPOOP's at this point, right? No line on the inside of the block running down into the oil?

Originally Posted by cdydjded

I look at it this way, if you looked at 1000 turbocharged cars Im sure 99% of them have the oil return above the oil line....

I'm inclined to agree. I can't see how hot oil hitting air would cause foaming. If that were the case, oil dripping down from the cylinder walls would foam, as well as the hot oil sitting in the pan...

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Focus_Sh1ft

Ok, so whose right about this? If you have oil hitting oil, then that means your line runs right into the oil, which is going to cause it to back up in the turbocharger. I now know this from experience unfortunately.

But now you're saying oil into air causes foaming? Uh...

Thanks for the pics btw.

huh? you need to go pour soapy water into a pitcher and see what happens, then pour the same water through a hose into the same pitcher..

how would oil back up into the turbo because it terminates under the oil line? that doesn't even make sense..

[Tamago]

Originally Posted by Tamago

huh? you need to go pour soapy water into a pitcher and see what happens, then pour the same water through a hose into the same pitcher..

how would oil back up into the turbo because it terminates under the oil line? that doesn't even make sense..

basic hydraulics will tell you to NEVER terminate any return line above the oil line. its not the oil hitting the air that causes foaming, it's the oil hitting the top of the oil. just like filling a bucket up that has soap in it. if you hold the hose above the water, the turbulence of the water landing on the top of the water will cause the soap to foam. if you put the hose under the water it does not disturb the oil..

[Tamago]

you miss the point. they're saying that the turbo should not sit BELOW THE OIL PAN...

[PETERPOOP]

Thanks for the info. Still not 100% sure which is best. Got to look into it more. But one thing I did decide to do, was to put a 90 coming through the bulk head, aiming down, rather than shooting straight across. After seeing the video (thanks cydgdgdgege) and seeing how strong the oil streams out, I didn't want it shooting onto the crank; and tamago's idea about putting the 90 made a lot of sense to me too. But I'm not too sure yet if I do want to extend it into the oil or not; still researching...

This is what I got so far:



Like tamago suggested, I could put this fitting on so the oil will return below the oil line.



This is with the 3/8" fitting on the outside..

[Tamago]

looking good sir

[Bluevitz-rs]

So then, what's the point of putting a hole in the block so high? Why not just put it just below the level of the oil in the pan to begin with.

The laws of equalization should apply to any liquid fluid. No matter what the hight of the return line in the oil, the levels will always equalize out. Even if the return was taped underneath the pan. The whole problem with the Zage return was that is was too restrictive running it all the way to the front.

The return line on my old Greddy kit was in the back of the oil pan and I experienced no problems with it at all. But it ran straight out the bottom of the turbo and into the pan. No bends anywhere. (I can post a picture of it later...)

[Focus_Sh1ft]

Originally Posted by Bluevitz-rs

So then, what's the point of putting a hole in the block so high? Why not just put it just below the level of the oil in the pan to begin with.

The laws of equalization should apply to any liquid fluid. No matter what the hight of the return line in the oil, the levels will always equalize out. Even if the return was taped underneath the pan. The whole problem with the Zage return was that is was too restrictive running it all the way to the front.

The return line on my old Greddy kit was in the back of the oil pan and I experienced no problems with it at all. But it ran straight out the bottom of the turbo and into the pan. No bends anywhere. (I can post a picture of it later...)

I completely agree. I had trouble digesting cdydjded's explanation (especially after Garm confirmed Charles is using the Zage pan without problems) but I'm not ready to accept a problem with the seals (which apparently are more hardy than they seem).

Watching those YouTube videos, I was pretty surprised at the velocity of the return oil. But that also leads me to believe that the orientation of the return line isn't that big of a deal, as long as it doesn't dip up. Oil flowing at that velocity should just push it's way through the line... It's probably worth mentioning that (for me atleast) there is very little oil leaking.

I don't know what to do at this point. I now have all the tools I need to tap the block, but am wondering if there's a better way to go about this. There's wayyy too much conflicting information - both here and online.

[Bluevitz-rs]

Here's a picture of the Greddy pan...

[Focus_Sh1ft]

^ Thanks for the pic. That design is nearly identical to Zage's... With the exception of the return line routing.

EDIT: I just had an interesting thought. Say there was a pressure buildup at the turbo. Is it possible this could cause an increase in pressure at the feed location (in my case, the oil filter)? I've been noticing slightly higher oil pressures recently (90+, esp. at idle). Could be normal / unrelated though.